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  1. #1
    Dream Vet

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    TH1/TH2 Ratio Significance

    Dr. Braverman,

    I have completed most of the tests on the Couples Immune Panel and all results have come back normal (no blood clotting, no ANA, normal NK activity, etc.). The only thing that seems odd is the following:

    TNF-A:IL-10 = 31.8 (Reprosource shows the normal range for fertile women to be 14.1-39.4 and that 31.9 is the borderline elevated level in the infertile population)
    IFN-G:IL-10 = 7.4 (Repsosource shows the normal range for fertile women to be 3.7-17.6 and that 12.4 is the borderline elevated level in the infertile population)

    NK cells are normal (activation test) and they are actually low normal on the Reproductive Immunophenotype (5.5). NK assay showed the highest value to be 8.9.

    I have only had one chemical pregnancy of a normal embryo. My previous history has been two boys conceived first month trying and never had a miscarriage before the IVF transfer. The IVF transfer was not of a high quality embryo (was delayed in development compared to the other).

    I am just curious if you see anything significant with the TNF-A results above? I am not planning on treating them with steroids because I think that might suppress the IFN-G levels too low and also because it doesn't really seem they are elevated. I am a huge stressball so I wonder if that could cause that to be a little bit borderline. Is that possible?

    No immune issues run in my family and we have a pretty uneventful pregnancy history. I had 2 full term pregnancies with scheduled cesareans because my pelvis is too small (will not expand to accommodate a baby). I do harbor a ton of stress due to my everyday life (I work full time, help my husband run his business, run my own side business, and am just a very active person running around trying to do everything all the time). I am going for my second transfer in about 2 weeks so I thought I would see what you thought about the ratios above and if I should try steroids or not.

    Thank you!
    DW (33), DH (35) to ODS (11) and YDS (6) and (2016). Hoped to add a little in 2014/2015, but it appears it is going to take way longer than expected.

    Cycle 1 - May 2013 - HRC - retrieval - Feb 2014 FET Planned Transfer - early blast resulted in a chemical (Chemical #1).
    Cycle 2 - May 2014 - HRC - No Normal XX embryos - No Transfer
    Cycle 3 - October 2014 - HRC - Retrieval and Unplanned FET in December 2014 - Normal XX resulted in another chemical (Chemical #2).

    January 2015 Immune Testing with Dr Braverman - He suspects mild endometriosis is my issue and wants me to have a lap.
    April 2015 lap surgery scheduled with renowned endometriosis surgeon. Stage 2 endometriosis found and excised!

    FET #3 - June 2015 - HRC - On Dr Braverman Immune Treatment (Lovenox, Prednisone, Intralipids, and Femara) My last xx embryo didn't survive the thaw (transferred backup donor embryo) - Chemical #3

    June 2015 - Sign up with adoption agencies as current plan (IVF does not seem to work for me).

    July 2015 - Receive 2 beautiful xx donor embryos! Decided to hire a proven surrogate to transfer to so I can end my quest for baby girl.

    September 2015 - First Natural Attempt without protection in 6 years = BFP 7dpo Beta 13 dpo 221, Beta 15 dpo 653, Seen at 6 and 8 Weeks! Panorama Test reveals bubs is another so transfer with surrogate/adoption is still on! Ask Braverman why this is happening and now he says we must have "gender dreamer issue" and not immune issues?!

    Received calls about baby girls for Adoption in November 2015, May 2016, and August 2016 - All had to turn down because of planned surrogacy transfers.

    January 2016 - FET #1 with proven surrogate - BFP 4dpt, Beta 12dpt 601, Beta 14 dpt 1,342, Beta 18dpt 734... CHEMICAL #4

    May 2016 - Baby Boy arrives healthy at 39 weeks (planned c section) - 8.5 lbs! I love love love this baby boy. He is such a blessing and a rainbow to me!

    July 2016 - FET #2 with proven surrogate and last donor embryo - BFP 3.5dpt! Beta 11dpt 374, Beta 13dpt 828, Beta 15dpt 1,689, Beta 18dpt 4,925! Seen at 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 10 weeks, and 12 weeks. Went for Gender Scan at 16 weeks and it shows baby passed away at 15 weeks.

    I JUST DON'T GET IT. HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?? SO SAD.

    Moving onto Adoption - I need to believe in a Real Live Baby and not a theory of a baby!

    UPDATE!! We have our new daughter through adoption March 2017!! We are in love and our family is complete!!

  2. #2
    Dreamer

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    Clearly, I'm not Dr. Braverman and not a reproductive immunology expert, so please pardon my putting in my 2 cents.

    However, before my FET, I got immuno results in which my TH1/TH2 ratio was off. I went on high doses of Vitamin D for 3 months prior to transfer (raising my levels from 34 to 78), and this normalized my TH1/TH2 ratio. It might be worth asking your doctor. Hope this helps and best of luck to you!

  3. #3
    Dream Vet

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuvmyXY View Post
    Clearly, I'm not Dr. Braverman and not a reproductive immunology expert, so please pardon my putting in my 2 cents.

    However, before my FET, I got immuno results in which my TH1/TH2 ratio was off. I went on high doses of Vitamin D for 3 months prior to transfer (raising my levels from 34 to 78), and this normalized my TH1/TH2 ratio. It might be worth asking your doctor. Hope this helps and best of luck to you!
    That's funny you mention that because my vitamin D levels are low normal (43)! That sounds very likely that could be the issue since its barely elevated and nothing else has come up as any concerns.

    I will add in my high dose of vitamin D and hope that should help.

    Do you mind me asking you what your levels were when they were tested prior to the vitamin D?

    Thank you so much!
    DW (33), DH (35) to ODS (11) and YDS (6) and (2016). Hoped to add a little in 2014/2015, but it appears it is going to take way longer than expected.

    Cycle 1 - May 2013 - HRC - retrieval - Feb 2014 FET Planned Transfer - early blast resulted in a chemical (Chemical #1).
    Cycle 2 - May 2014 - HRC - No Normal XX embryos - No Transfer
    Cycle 3 - October 2014 - HRC - Retrieval and Unplanned FET in December 2014 - Normal XX resulted in another chemical (Chemical #2).

    January 2015 Immune Testing with Dr Braverman - He suspects mild endometriosis is my issue and wants me to have a lap.
    April 2015 lap surgery scheduled with renowned endometriosis surgeon. Stage 2 endometriosis found and excised!

    FET #3 - June 2015 - HRC - On Dr Braverman Immune Treatment (Lovenox, Prednisone, Intralipids, and Femara) My last xx embryo didn't survive the thaw (transferred backup donor embryo) - Chemical #3

    June 2015 - Sign up with adoption agencies as current plan (IVF does not seem to work for me).

    July 2015 - Receive 2 beautiful xx donor embryos! Decided to hire a proven surrogate to transfer to so I can end my quest for baby girl.

    September 2015 - First Natural Attempt without protection in 6 years = BFP 7dpo Beta 13 dpo 221, Beta 15 dpo 653, Seen at 6 and 8 Weeks! Panorama Test reveals bubs is another so transfer with surrogate/adoption is still on! Ask Braverman why this is happening and now he says we must have "gender dreamer issue" and not immune issues?!

    Received calls about baby girls for Adoption in November 2015, May 2016, and August 2016 - All had to turn down because of planned surrogacy transfers.

    January 2016 - FET #1 with proven surrogate - BFP 4dpt, Beta 12dpt 601, Beta 14 dpt 1,342, Beta 18dpt 734... CHEMICAL #4

    May 2016 - Baby Boy arrives healthy at 39 weeks (planned c section) - 8.5 lbs! I love love love this baby boy. He is such a blessing and a rainbow to me!

    July 2016 - FET #2 with proven surrogate and last donor embryo - BFP 3.5dpt! Beta 11dpt 374, Beta 13dpt 828, Beta 15dpt 1,689, Beta 18dpt 4,925! Seen at 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 10 weeks, and 12 weeks. Went for Gender Scan at 16 weeks and it shows baby passed away at 15 weeks.

    I JUST DON'T GET IT. HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?? SO SAD.

    Moving onto Adoption - I need to believe in a Real Live Baby and not a theory of a baby!

    UPDATE!! We have our new daughter through adoption March 2017!! We are in love and our family is complete!!

  4. #4
    Dreamer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luvmyboys View Post
    That's funny you mention that because my vitamin D levels are low normal (43)! That sounds very likely that could be the issue since its barely elevated and nothing else has come up as any concerns.

    I will add in my high dose of vitamin D and hope that should help.

    Do you mind me asking you what your levels were when they were tested prior to the vitamin D?

    Thank you so much!
    Just seeing this and getting your private message. I just messaged you back.

  5. #5
    Ask the Expert
    Dr. Braverman's Avatar
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    Did you get my reply from my website forum , I responded to your post their. Just to say that Vit D is very important as another poster has pointed out, but many times low Vit D is a result of an immune issue or exacerbates an underlying issue. It should never be looked at as the sole issue in cases of recurrent pregnancy loss , but certainly as a significant contributor.
    Dr. Braverman, Founder and Medical Director at Braverman Reproductive Immunology, New York
    www.preventmiscarriage.com
    @BravermanReprod

  6. #6
    Dream Vet

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    I did see it. Thank you.

    Can chronic stress cause the inflammation? As in I have to go to regular counseling because I worry chronically.

    Would having no family history of auto immune mean anything?

    Are low dose steroids harmful in cases with borderline elevated cytokines?
    DW (33), DH (35) to ODS (11) and YDS (6) and (2016). Hoped to add a little in 2014/2015, but it appears it is going to take way longer than expected.

    Cycle 1 - May 2013 - HRC - retrieval - Feb 2014 FET Planned Transfer - early blast resulted in a chemical (Chemical #1).
    Cycle 2 - May 2014 - HRC - No Normal XX embryos - No Transfer
    Cycle 3 - October 2014 - HRC - Retrieval and Unplanned FET in December 2014 - Normal XX resulted in another chemical (Chemical #2).

    January 2015 Immune Testing with Dr Braverman - He suspects mild endometriosis is my issue and wants me to have a lap.
    April 2015 lap surgery scheduled with renowned endometriosis surgeon. Stage 2 endometriosis found and excised!

    FET #3 - June 2015 - HRC - On Dr Braverman Immune Treatment (Lovenox, Prednisone, Intralipids, and Femara) My last xx embryo didn't survive the thaw (transferred backup donor embryo) - Chemical #3

    June 2015 - Sign up with adoption agencies as current plan (IVF does not seem to work for me).

    July 2015 - Receive 2 beautiful xx donor embryos! Decided to hire a proven surrogate to transfer to so I can end my quest for baby girl.

    September 2015 - First Natural Attempt without protection in 6 years = BFP 7dpo Beta 13 dpo 221, Beta 15 dpo 653, Seen at 6 and 8 Weeks! Panorama Test reveals bubs is another so transfer with surrogate/adoption is still on! Ask Braverman why this is happening and now he says we must have "gender dreamer issue" and not immune issues?!

    Received calls about baby girls for Adoption in November 2015, May 2016, and August 2016 - All had to turn down because of planned surrogacy transfers.

    January 2016 - FET #1 with proven surrogate - BFP 4dpt, Beta 12dpt 601, Beta 14 dpt 1,342, Beta 18dpt 734... CHEMICAL #4

    May 2016 - Baby Boy arrives healthy at 39 weeks (planned c section) - 8.5 lbs! I love love love this baby boy. He is such a blessing and a rainbow to me!

    July 2016 - FET #2 with proven surrogate and last donor embryo - BFP 3.5dpt! Beta 11dpt 374, Beta 13dpt 828, Beta 15dpt 1,689, Beta 18dpt 4,925! Seen at 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 10 weeks, and 12 weeks. Went for Gender Scan at 16 weeks and it shows baby passed away at 15 weeks.

    I JUST DON'T GET IT. HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?? SO SAD.

    Moving onto Adoption - I need to believe in a Real Live Baby and not a theory of a baby!

    UPDATE!! We have our new daughter through adoption March 2017!! We are in love and our family is complete!!

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