December 28th, 2012, 04:01 PM
Swaying Advice Coach
Nuts and Bolts of Swaying LIBRARY - Basic How-to, for PINK and BLUE
Here are atomic's general how-to sway essays that are more general and applicable for both pink and blue swayers, all in one thread without the discussion at the end. If you have a question on any given topic, or want to read the discussion and comments following the essay, just follow the link at the top of the page to the original thread.
For introductory and general sway info library, that's here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...ound-here.html
Complete index is here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...ete-index.html
Apologies, I wanted this to be perfect and it's not as good as I would like in terms of organization, but I think if I hold out for perfect, this will never get done.
Last edited by atomic sagebrush; December 28th, 2012 at 06:23 PM.
December 28th, 2012, 04:03 PM
Swaying Advice Coach
What are the REAL differences between X sperm and Y sperm??
Conventional wisdom claims that X sperm and Y sperm are very different critters. Sure, they split from the same cells and matured in the exact same environment for 90 days prior to ejaculation, but somehow according to some of these theories, the second they leave a man's body, they begin to behave in dramatically different ways. Let's take these one at a time and see what the science has to say.
1) X and Y sperm are different sizes and shapes. MOSTLY FALSE - It is true that X sperm are ever-so slightly bigger than Y sperm, because they carry 2.8% more genetic material (that tiny little arm of the X chromosome that is not present on the Y) and as a result their heads may be as much as 1% wider across or no different at all depending on the individual sperm. (sperm come in a variety of sizes). To put in perspective of how very small a difference that is, each sperm has 22 full sized chromosomes and then the 23rd which is either an X or a Y - the size difference is just that one tiny arm of the X. Everything else is the same between the X and Y sperm. (there's a good picture here Karyotype - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - half of those chromosomes pictured are in X sperm along with the slightly bigger X chromosome, and the other half are present in Y sperm along with the slightly smaller Y chromosome). Not much of a difference.
Researchers have investigated this idea extensively in a series of studies and most have found no difference between the size and shape of X and Y sperm - not head length, not width, not area, tail length, or in any size or shape. And they checked this in both men with normal sperm and unhealthy sperm and found the exact same thing - NO discernible difference in size or shape (aside from the very small 2.8% difference in genetic material, of course)
Dimensional assessment of X-bearing and Y-bear... [Fertil Steril. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI
Quantification and classification of human spe... [Fertil Steril. 1988] - PubMed - NCBI
Here is one study that did seem to prove there were some subtle differences and that X sperm do seem to have a 1% larger head radius than Y do, but on balance, most researchers have not been able to find major differences between X and Y sperm.
Where did this idea come from? Our old friend Dr. Landrum Shettles, who over 40 years ago looked at sperm through a microscope and noticed that there were some with fat heads and some with pointy heads and after trying to count chromosomes in them and giving up, jumped to a rather large, if understandable conclusion, that the fat heads were X and the pointy heads Y.
However, a good deal of much more advanced technology has been invented since then and researchers have since found that what Shettles believed were X and Y sperm, were in fact uncapacitated and capacitated sperm - sperm have to lose their round ends in order to fertilize an egg and undergo a process called "capacitation" after ejaculation.
There is NO way that anyone can look through a microscope and tell which sperm are X and which are Y. In fact, research on sperm is made very complicated by the fact that in order to observe sperm by basis of genetics, you have to alter them by using fluorescent dyes that may alter their actual characteristics. Keep that in the back of your mind whenever you read anything about sperm and how they behave, because a lot of researchers have been studying sperm that wasn't counted in advance of studying them (so who even knows what the percentages of X and Y sperm were there to begin with), weren't counted accurately after experimenting on them, and/or may have been altered in some way by the process of observing them.
2)X and Y sperm swim at different speeds - FALSE. Once Shettles decided that big and round = X and small and pointy = Y, he was off to the races. He decided that ~if~ X and Y were drastically different in size, that meant that X sperm were slow and Y sperm were fast and that is why he came up with his timing method. That's right, the ONLY reason anyone ever thought that timing intercourse mattered in gender ratio at all was because of one man's mistake.
Now Shettles could be ever so slightly right, Y are just a wee bit smaller. But as anyone who has ever watched the Olympics knows, athletes come in many sizes and shapes and just because an athlete is 1% larger than another athlete, does not mean that he/she will be 1% slower. Size can bring with it advantages as well as disadvantages.
Also, research indicates that while sperm do swim, the cervical mucus has currents in it that actually help move the sperm around to where it needs to go and that these currents may actually do more to bring the sperm to the egg than the motion of the sperm itself rendering any theoretical difference in speed largely meaningless anyway. In fact, some of the fastest-swimming sperm are dead on arrival and incapable of fertilizing an egg!! Given that 140-160 males are conceived for every 100 females, if Y sperm really were significantly faster than X, this is not what you would expect to see if Y sperm were really superfast and superfast sperm are incapable of fertilizing an egg.
3) X sperm are strong and live a long time and Y sperm are weak and susceptible to damage - FALSE. Again, Shettles, believing that the uncapacitated sperm were X sperm, assumed that since these "X" sperm were bigger, they were also stronger and hardier than Y sperm. Since this was all based on his misinterpretation of what he viewed, this idea is also completely false. Both timing and pH theory rely heavily on this completely disproven idea.
In fact, research suggests that Y sperm may actually survive longer than X sperm in vitro. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...1.00427.x/full
That having been said, X and Y sperm ~may~ capacitate at different rates and theoretically this could have something to do with gender ratio. It doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility that timing intercourse or pH could play some part in this process. Elsevier Cambridge Journals
4) X and Y sperm swim differently - TRUE. When observed in vitro, X and Y sperm do seem to swim differently, even though they swim at the same speed. (IN COWS.) But it is not known how that translates to in vivo (in your body) conditions. Also, the numbers of sperm onhand seemed to affect how the sperm swam.
pH is often suggested as having something to do with this process but in the study below, pH is not mentioned.
MOST of the action that moves sperm to the egg has nothing to do with the sperm itself. Muscle contractions, cilia lining your Fallopian tubes, and the movement of cervical mucus throughout your reproductive tract are all much more efficient ways of moving sperm than how the sperm swim anyway.
PART TWO -
5) X and Y sperm "like" different pH levels - UNKNOWN BUT DOUBTFUL This is another idea straight from Dr. Shettles. He surmised that if X were bigger and Y were smaller, then X would therefore be stronger and Y would be weaker. Thus, an acidic environment would kill off mostly the Y sperm and the X would stay behind to fertilize the egg. He suggested douching with vinegar to aid in conceiving a girl and baking soda for a boy. Many, many people have expanded upon this idea over the last 40 years and run with it and you can buy various preparations that are supposed to help you conceive your desired gender. In fact, patents exist for some of these products and are often presented as "scientific evidence" that pH affects X and Y sperm differently. A PATENT IS NOT SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE. In fact, a patent can prevent other independent researchers from testing the product/method to see if it even works.
Most of the at-home high tech methods you read about online such as "modified swim up", "swim up" and "the turkey baster method TBM" are variations on this theme as well. These are based primarily around the research of Dr. Ronald Ericsson. Ericsson method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://www.in-gender.com/Gender-Sele.../Ericsson.aspx Dr. Ericsson's spinning technique is based partially around pH, partially around the idea that X and Y sperm swim at different speeds, along with spinning sperm (using the supposed larger weight of X sperm to separate them out). The Ericsson method uses different solutions to encourage sperm of different genders to swim to certain levels in a test tube and from there they can be weeded out and used to impregnate people. Problem is, there are TONS of studies that refute Ericsson - Ericsson himself is pretty much the only person who's ever gotten his method to work reliably (aside from the many licensed clinics bearing his name, of course) and if highly trained researchers in multimillion dolllar labs can't do it, it seems very unlikely that people at home armed with toy centrifuges can.
Further casting doubt on Ericsson's claims, after all this spinning and separating sperm, the ratio of sperm left behind is STILL 50-50. Ericsson admits this but claims that despite this seeming contradiction, the sperm in question goes onto conceive children in the proper gender ratios 70-80% of the time. IF this is true, that still doesn't prove that pH has anything to do with it.
Anyway, returning to the matter at hand, pH - if Dr. Shettles was wrong to begin with, then WHY would pH really matter that much? (not saying it doesn't, just pointing out that the entire idea of pH is based on a flawed premise and incorrect information). ~If~ X sperm and Y sperm are pretty much the same size and swim pretty much the same speed and live pretty much the same time and are pretty much equally hearty, HOW does pH matter?
Corollary to this question is an observation that I have made - in the vast majority of people without serious medical issues, semen and EWCM (at ovulation) are both slightly alkaline (in the 7's) and sperm goes from semen to EWCM and then swims through it to fertilize the egg. Yet most couples manage to conceive children of both genders without requiring baking soda or Crystal Light. WHY would God/Mother Nature require pH any different than what is normally there, in order to conceive a baby of a certain gender? WHY would low pH = girls and high pH = boys if medium pH is best for ALL sperm to survive in? It doesn't add up to me.
6)X and Y sperm have different electrical charges. FALSE. Originally, in the late 80's/early 90's, some researchers believed they had discovered a difference in electrical charge between X and Y sperm. Some even went so far as to suggest that the egg alters its charge to attract different gender sperm depending on several different variables. However, these studies were later invalidated, firstly because the method the researchers had used to differentiate between X and Y sperm was fount to be inaccurate (VanKooij and VanOost 1992 I cannot find this actual study online but it is widely cited). Surface heterogeneity of bovine sperm revealed by aqueous two-phase partition - Springer (I don't even understand this study but it is widely cited as debunking the electrical charge idea) http://www.ucm.es/info/genetvet/pred..._DNA_pools.pdf and http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/38/3/603.pdf also debunk the idea that electrical charge is different between X and Y sperm.
The existence of Microsort itself is evidence against the "electrical charge" idea. The way Microsort works is, sperm are colored with a fluorescent dye and forced through a flow cytometer one at a time. They are encased with a tiny drop of liquid that has an electric charge and then separated out using an electrostatic deflection. IF different-gendered sperm had these charges to begin with, why would Microsort simply not separate them with electrostatic deflection? Answer - because they can't, because it doesn't work.
Some companies are more than happy to take your money to do this, but the reason why none in the United States do it is because IT DOESN'T WORK and the FDA does not license products that don't work. http://www.choicebabyconcept.com/choicemethod/lab.html
7) X and Y sperm "like" different amounts of electrolytes (calcium and magnesium for girls, sodium and potassium for boys)in cervical mucus because of their electrical charges, and these electrolytes are what attract them to the egg. FALSE. If X and Y sperm don't differ in their electrical charge (see number 6 above) then there is NOTHING supporting this idea. This doesn't mean that there is nothing to the idea that changes in diet can alter the gender ratio because that idea actually has a lot of scientific support. But it's almost certainly NOT because your egg is charged a certain way or cervical mucus is filled with positive or negative ions due to the amount of electrolytes in your diet.
8)X and Y sperm have other, different surface properties and these when combined with chemicals present in semen and CM may alter gender ratio in some way. PLAUSIBLE BUT UNKNOWN. http://www.bioscirep.cn/bsr/011/0265/0110265.pdf seemed to find two populations of (unsorted) sperm that had different surface properties and hope was raised that these two populations would later be found to be X and Y sperm. However, in a follow-up study done two years later by the same researchers, http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...40313/abstract it was later found that these were actually two different groups of Y sperm that were carrying different antigens.
Other subsequent studies that looked for differences in surface proteins and antigens that were presorted for gender prior to study, all failed to find any differences (I won't cite all these because there are a lot of them and they are not really helpful but here are a couple Comparison of detergent-solubilized membrane ... [Mol Reprod Dev. 1996] - PubMed - NCBI and A search for sex-specific antigens on bovine... [J Reprod Fertil. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI). A major problem with presorting sperm prior to studying them is, it is VERY likely that any differences in surface qualities are altered by the flow cytometry used to sort the sperm. Some other very small peptides such as the H-Y antigen (previously found on sperm with mixed results in terms of gender ratio) are so tiny that they are very difficult to detect. That does not mean that the differences are not there, just that they are very hard to find.
In an outstanding metanalysis, http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences...rence/dc19.pdf researchers Melissa MacFarlane, Angela Maschiari, and Richard Pursley explain why they believe differences in the cell surface of X and Y sperm do not exist and will never be found and I totally agree with their logic. To paraphrase: Sperm are formed from one cell that divides into two (please see my essay http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...-X-AND-Y-SPERM!!! for more about this process). As sperm divides from one XY cell into X sperm and Y sperm, the X and Y stay connected for some time while the genes swap genetic info between the set of genes that are going to end up in the X sperm and the genes that are going to end up in the Y sperm. In a process known as crossing over, some of the genes your husband inherited from his mother trade places with some of the genes he inherited from his father, ensuring that both sons and daughters will inherit a diverse amount of genetic info from both their paternal grandparents. The cells do not divide until AFTER all this genetic transcription has taken place, X and Y sperm are really just one big megasperm wearing the exact same skin, until after all this swapping has occured. They are really the same cell until all this happens, and then and only then do they divide into two. This seems to indicate that whatever is on the outside of both sperm is basically the same.
It is certainly possible that there could be some mechanism that kicks in after the sperm are separated but there is no evidence to support this.
NUTSHELL VERSION - X sperm are very slightly larger than Y sperm but appear the same in most other ways. X and Y sperm have been observed to swim slightly differently in a test tube. Most of the supposed differences between X and Y sperm are based solely on the mistaken ideas of a well-meaning and actually quite brilliant man who was completely wrong and has been proven wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt.
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December 28th, 2012, 04:06 PM
Swaying Advice Coach
The Jellybean Factory – Understanding Sperm Count and Frequency
People have a hard time wrapping their brains around how frequency patterns sway. Here’s an analogy that can maybe help us visualize the process a little bit.
Imagine that your husband’s entire body, but particularly his testicles, are a jelly bean factory, making jelly beans every day. By using the raw materials he gets/makes from the foods he eats, this jelly bean factory makes one big XY jelly bean that then divides into two X and two Y jelly beans in a process that take about 72 days for his jelly beans to mature. This process repeats itself millions of times a day.
AT the bottom of the jelly bean factory is a big glass jar – or two, but just to make it easier to picture we’ll imagine one glass jar (proper name – epididymis) where sperm are stored. At the end of the jar, is a spout that dispenses the jelly beans (I think we all know the proper name for the spout LOL). Every time he ejaculates, you get a ‘serving’ of jelly beans that have been deposited there over the course of several days. Some are older, some are newer. Some are X, some are Y – and NOTHING you can do can change that fact – both X and Y are ejaculated in roughly 50-50, every man, every time.
As the jelly beans age, they begin to turn into licorice ones that taste bad and even when dispensed, usually no one wants them and they just get thrown away – these ‘licorice sperm’ tend to be poor swimmers, don’t survive long in the female body, and they’re the least likely to fertilize an egg. After a while, the oldest and unhealthiest licorice ones get too stale and the materials in them are reused to make new jelly beans. There are NOT separate compartments for each day’s sperm, nor are there separate batches of sperm…the factory is always running, always depositing more layers.
As the sperm are made, they are added to the glass storage jar. For the sake of illustration, imagine that the jelly beans he makes every day are different colors and as they’re deposited, they kind of form layers (which they almost certainly do to some extent). Each scoop or layer, is sperm that DH is making on a daily basis. So one day he makes purple, one day he makes green, one day he makes yellow, different amounts each day depending on how well the factory is functioning, how full the glass storage jar is, and the amount of raw materials he has available. Among these layers, about half are marked with a tiny X and half are marked with a tiny Y (because remember, that first big jelly bean he makes is a big XY that then splits into 2 X, 2 Y jelly beans) and nothing you do can change that proportion.
The newest layers of jelly beans are deposited on top and over time, the oldest jelly beans tend to sink to the bottom and get used up while more new ones are dropped on the top. They are not strictly segregated, however – just like when you dispense anything from a dispenser, it’s totally possible that some old ones get pushed up against the sides and never manage to come out the spout, and also possible that some newer ones manage to jockey their way down a little faster than you might expect and “take cuts” ahead of some who’ve been waiting longer (you know how that sort of whirpool effect happens and the stuff in the middle sometimes gets pulled down faster than the stuff on the sides can.)
On average however, the older jelly beans tend to get dispensed sooner and the newer jelly beans, later. You’d probably never get any of the newest jelly beans in a batch, because they haven’t had the time to sink to the bottom of the dispenser, and you’d never get only the oldest layer of jelly beans because at least some other layers would get mixed in there as well. And it’s very likely that you NEVER are able to get all the jelly beans from any one layer or have any batches that are just one layer created on one day. Some will always get pushed up against the sides and turn into licorice and eventually be recycled into new jelly beans. So pink swayers, if you’re worried about the day your husband cheated on his diet and went to Kentucky Fried Chicken or blue swayers, if you’re remembering how your husband sat in a hot tub after you told him not to and are trying to count back 72 days to find out when exactly that day’s sperm is going to come out so you can just not BD that day, don’t!! It doesn’t work that way.
Further complicating matters, he doesn’t just make or dispense a set number of jelly beans on any given day. The amount of jelly beans he makes/dispenses depends on several different factors. Firstly, there is a limited amount of room in the dispenser. If the dispenser starts to get full and stays full for a really long time, he will start to make fewer jelly beans (he may experience testicular pain as well), the jelly beans may accidentally dispense themselves usually while he’s sleeping , and when you do dispense a batch, a LOT of jelly beans will probably come out because they’re under some pressure from the other jelly beans trying to get out. Since the jelly beans aren’t getting used up regularly, more of them will turn into licorice jelly beans, and the ones on the bottom will end up being a quite high percent licorice – but probably not all licorice. The whirlpool effect will probably ensure that some newer jelly beans make it out along with the licorice ones.
Obviously, this is how abstain works. Many men report they actually have very large batches of semen after abstain and people have been concerned about this for their pink sway, but more of the sperm are bad and incapable of fertilizing an egg. Net result – fewer edible jelly beans, fewer sperm able to swim to/fertilize the egg. Lower VIABLE sperm numbers = more girls.
Since it is a jellybean factory that is going 24-7, there are always more layers being deposited constantly, half X and half Y, and the more you take out (the more he ejaculates) the sooner the layers on top will make it to the bottom and get dispensed, so you can guarantee that if you take out servings of jelly beans pretty regularly, all your jelly beans will be fresh and tasty with very few licorice ones. At the same time, you don’t want to take out SO many jelly beans that there are hardly any left. This why you want to BD every 2-4 days for blue - max numbers of nice fresh jelly beans/sperm, and large amounts of healthy sperm = boys. Please understand, there are STILL about 50-50 X and Y sperm regardless, but more and healthier sperm, both X and Y sways blue for reasons we do not yet understand.
Blue swauers, if something happens and you go 5 days between BD, or would like to have more than one attempt in your fertile window/microwindow and BD every other day or even 2-3 days in a row, that’s FINE! That will not ruin your sway even tho it is not the strict, 'every 2-4 days' suggestion. You can see it’s still very, very different from what pink swayers are doing and is nowhere near enough to deplete the numbers of jelly beans.
At the same time, the jelly bean factory only has a limited number of ingredients for making more jelly beans, so if you scoop out lots and lots all the time, over time there start to be fewer and fewer jelly beans per scoop (which is how FR and compressed FR can sway pink.) The factory never shuts down production, so there will always be a FEW jelly beans being made. In fact, since demand seems to be high, the factory may even increase production to some extent but by constantly dispensing the jelly beans as quickly as they can collect, you ensure that numbers stay low. Lower sperm numbers sways pink even tho both X and Y are being dispensed in roughly equal numbers.
Sometimes pink swayers wonder about switching from abstain to FR, or continuing with straight FR after missing a day. The reason why this is not the greatest idea, is all about supply and demand. With abstain, the factory does kind of shut down production but then when you have your abstain BD, it’s usually a big batch that helps to ‘clean the pipes’ and get rid of a lot of the licorice jelly beans. All of a sudden there’s a lot of room for fresh jelly beans, and probably quite a bit of spare raw materials that the factory can use to make more very quickly. So production may go up suddenly and then if you BD again after your abstain, you may end up with a big batch of some leftover older sperm (the factory is still trying to get rid of those!!) and a nice big batch of fresh sperm, net result, higher sperm numbers than with just abstain + 1 attempt. With FR, production may even be a bit higher still, because demand is higher, so if you miss a day, you end up with fresh healthy sperm that may add up quickly. In both instances, it’s better to switch to compressed FR (2-3 releases in a 12-24 hours, using only the last batch for insemination) because you’ll be able to better deplete numbers that way. Keep in mind that neither of these two situations is make or break – you’ll still get about 50-50 X and Y sperm regardless and if you’re swaying (pink especially, but also blue sway tactics like BSF, BSD, and Shettles timing), you may actually NEED more sperm because so much of swaying can be harmful for sperm survival.
Like any factory, things can break down and go wrong – heat/pressure can cause good jelly beans to turn licorice before their time, high levels of chemicals (even things like nicotine, alcohol, and caffeine) and hormones like estrogen can both reduce the factory’s production and also increase the proportion of licorice jelly beans, some men are just born with factories that are a little less effective than they should be or their factory has become less efficient over time from aging, injury, lack of sleep, stress, or disease. All these things can reduce production and sway pink regardless of frequency of BD.
If you limit the amounts of ingredients the factory has coming in to begin with, your husband just cannot MAKE as many jelly beans as he would be able to under ideal circumstances. And too many ingredients can be just as bad as not enough – too much sugar, fat, and certain nutrients like zinc can cause the equipment to malfunction, even tho under ideal circumstances they actually help make jelly beans!!
For swaying blue you just want to get the factory running as efficiently as you can, provide ample amounts of high quality ingredients but not so much that the equipment gets overwhelmed (esp. with mineral supplements, more is not better!), take out regular (every 2-4 days) but not overly frequent batches of jelly beans/sperm to ensure steady production and freshness. As long as the batches are regular, not too many or too few, and DH is in good health and eating right, the odds are good that you will get large amounts of fresh jelly beans. Have him avoid stress, get plenty of rest, avoid heat and pressure from bike seats or tighty whiteys, limit alcohol and caffeine and STOP SMOKING, and if he works around industrial chemicals or radiation, he should take precautions to limit his exposure as much as possible. Make sure he is treated for any underlying testicular injury or disease (and having a very high pH 9+ can actually be a symptom of underlying infections that are actually BAD for sperm and will sway pink regardless of pH, so if your husband has high pH naturally, don’t celebrate, blue swayers - he needs to see a doctor to rule out any infections that are causing his pH to rise while making him shoot excess numbers of licorice jelly beans!!))
To sway pink, you have to take out A LOT of jelly beans frequently (once a day for 7-10 days or even more, OR 2-3 times a day for 2-3 days, dumping all batches, then 2-3 times a day using only the last batch for insemination), or else not take any for a long time (abstain for 7-10 days, up to 14 but no longer) and let the licorice ones add up. You may also want to limit raw materials (esp. saturated fat and cholesterol for DH) and keep the equipment in less than ideal condition by having DH wear tighty whiteys, take hot baths, use licorice root, getting less sleep, ride a bike, etc. He does not need to stop drinking or give up caffeine for swaying – and if he smokes, of course for his health it’s better to stop but it’s not better for your sway.
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December 28th, 2012, 04:07 PM
Swaying Advice Coach
frequency of BD for pink and blue
FREQUENCY OF INTERCOURSE - an overview
The amount, pattern and frequency of intercourse is an important part of a good sway. It’s not really timing, but it may be the real reason why timing was once thought to sway, because couples were advised to DTD in these patterns AND on a certain day for timing. Timing has been investigated thoroughly and both genders are conceived in roughly equal numbers on every day, so it's unlikely that timing alone is swaying - it's probably the frequency patterns that sway.
Let’s take a closer look at this sometimes confusing sway strategy. I include the strategies for both girl and boy swaying so you can read them and know what NOT to do as well.
Anything that increases fertility of a couple overall and most important, the numbers of sperm of BOTH genders that survive to make it to the egg, sways blue. Anything that decreases the fertility of a couple overall and limits the number of sperm that makes it to the egg (while still allowing enough to achieve pregnancy), sways pink. This is not about killing off more X than Y or vice versa, because we don’t know how to do that, and it is probably not even possible to do that (please read http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...rm-and-Y-sperm.
With that in mind, here is more about the frequency of intercourse and how it is best included in a sway.
Frequency strategies for pink: These strategies will lower sperm count overall, leaving less sperm to go onto the egg. As a result, they may reduce your odds of pregnancy, especially if you are doing a lot of other things to sway. If you cannot get pregnant, you have zero shot at your DG. Remember, there is no law that says you HAVE to include any of these things in your sway, so if you’re in a big hurry to get pregnant or something just doesn‘t feel right for you as a couple, keep in mind that you always have the option to forgo any sway strategy - there is no ONE way to sway.
Frequent Release: DH releases (ejaculates) every day, at least once a day and more often whenever he can, for 7-10 days or more if he can. You can use frequent release with one attempt, with a cutoff of 2-3 days, at ovulation, with an O+12 attempt, or with a combo of these. Please read http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...toff-with-O-12 for a more in depth explanation of how you might combine timing with frequency. For this strategy, he will release outside your body and only use the last batch of semen to inseminate you.
Frequent BD, either with a cutoff or through O: For those in a greater hurry to get pg, it is possible to DTD for 7-10 days rather than having your husband release outside your body. You can use frequent BD either with a cutoff (so stop DTD 2-3 days prior to ovulation) or you can BD through O for higher odds of pregnancy. (this will raise pH, but if you use RepHresh/Acijel to lower pH, you may be able to counteract this.)
You can also mix these up and have him release outside some or most of the time as well - as an example, you might have him release outside your body until you’re nearing O (either you get a positive OPK or you begin 2-3 days before you expect to O) and then begin to have him release inside, or release inside every other time, until you’re sure you’ve ovulated. This might be a good option if you want to get pg quickly but you’re worried about pH.
The important thing is, that he HAS to release every day at least once and pref. more, for at least 7-10 days prior to when you BEGIN your BD attempts...it can't just be 7-10 days before O itself if you attempt starting at a cutoff timing because that means there will be sperm from only 5-7 days FR, and that may sway blue for some men.
Abstaining: DH will need to abstain for 7-10 days prior to one attempt. Some people even do super-long abstains of 14 days or more. You can have this attempt with a cutoff, with one attempt at ovulation, or with an O+12. Warning - abstaining has been linked to bad sperm quality, and a slightly increased risk of birth defects in men over 35, so this def. has some downsides. It may prevent you from getting pregnant all together and remember, if you can't get pregnant, you can't get your DG.
Combining Abstaining and FR: You can use this as an emergency tactic when 1) you ovulated early or late and were not able to complete a full 7-10 day abstain 2) your husband had a nocturnal emission or a moment of weakness and can no longer have a full 7-10 days of abstaining before you O.
Or, you can do it by design to increase your odds of pg and fit in more than one attempt. The sperm count will be diminished by the long abstain and then will never have a chance to recover if you switch to very frequent BD immediately.
To do this method, abstain from the beginning of AF to either a cutoff timing (2-3 DBO) or to when you get a positive OPK. DTD with the first ejaculation after the abstain and use that for insemination. Then, have your husband begin to release as much as he can. You can use all of these for insemination (using RepHresh or another jelly to lower pH if desired) or you can only use the last one prior to ovulation/cutoff - so you would use the first ejaculation after abstaining, and then a second ejaculation after DH had released himself as many times as he was able to in a day or two or three.
To illustrate for more clarity, let’s say Swayer 1 wanted to have a cutoff. She could have her husband abstain for 7-10 days, then 2, 3, or even 4 DBO they would BD once, with ejaculation inside (since they will be DTD more than once, they may want to begin with a longer cutoff than a couple doing only one attempt does). Immediately afterwards, they could DTD a second time inside, OR her husband could release and they could dump that batch. He could continue releasing as much as he could and they could choose whether or not to have him ejaculate inside or to dump them, depending on how in a hurry they were to conceive and what else they were doing to sway. A couple that is doing a lot of sperm-unfriendly things to sway, might want to have more attempts inside, while a couple that is mostly relying on frequency of intercourse to sway and not doing jellies or antihistamine, might prefer to stick with only one or two attempts inside, dumping the rest. A couple in a big hurry to get pg might want to do all the attempts inside and not do jellies/anthistamines. Then, at 2 DBO they would stop attempting and wait for the egg to be released and hope that the sperm already deposited, will go onto fertilize it.
Swayer 2 wants to BD through O, so she might abstain until she got a pos OPK, usually 12-36 hours before ovulation. They could DTD once that day inside, then as soon as DH was able to, they could DTD again, either inside or dumping it. The next day, they could DTD once in the morning and again at night, and again the day after that. Sometime on that third day, it’s probably O+12 timing. The sperm count never really has time to recover from the abstain, so it stays on the low side throughout, but they’re still upping their odds of pg, esp. if they’re doing a lot of other things to sway. They could also just use the first abstain and then have DH release as much as he could and use only the O+12 batch for a second insemination if they wanted to, or use one batch per day and dump the rest.
To illustrate a couple of emergency situations, let’s say you were expecting to O on CD 14 and you DTD on CD 12. But you don’t get a pos OPK until CD 16. Your odds of pg are very low at that point. But if you have your husband switch from abstaining to FR after your first attempt, you can try again at any point and still feel pretty good about it. Or, you find out that your husband had a nocturnal emission on CD 10 and you wanted to have your attempt on CD 12 - that would be a frequency of 2 days, which is ideal for raising sperm count. As soon as you learn of the “whoops”, have him begin to release 2 or 3 times a day, then go ahead with your attempt on CD 12 and again, you can feel good about that attempt because the sperm numbers had no opportunity to recover.
Compressed FR: You can use this as an emergency tactic if you were trying to go for FR but something came up and you missed a day here or there, or if you have a very irregular ovulation or a very long cycle (which does happen sometimes when you begin to sway pink, even if you‘ve always had a regular cycle) and the idea of FR for 3 and 4 weeks or even longer is daunting. Or, you can do it by design for those husbands who really cannot manage either FR or abstaining.
DTD in whatever pattern you prefer until you get a positive OPK. (you could potentially use this with a cutoff, but if something happens and you O late, you could end up with your DH having to release for several days in a row and that’s what you’re trying to prevent by doing this technique.) Then, have DH release once and dump the first batch - DO NOT use this batch for insemination, no matter what. As soon as he is capable, have him DTD again…you can use this second batch for insemination or dump it, too. By the time the third batch rolls around (again, as soon as he is able to), the count will be a lot lower than it was and you can use all subsequent batches for insemination. Keep DTD as much as you can until you’re sure you have Oed and the egg is gone. Or, you can use only one batch for insemination if you prefer.
To use this as an emergency tactic, let’s say that you were going for FR but one of your kids got sick in the night and ended up in your bed and then your MIL stopped by unexpectedly on another day. So you missed a couple of days in the middle of your 7-10 day FR. You’ve only had 2 days in a row of release and now you’re going to O in 2 days. Don’t panic. Have DH release once and dump it, then as soon as he is able, DTD again and use that second batch if you like or wait for a third batch. Keep DH releasing as much as possible through O, using or dumping batches depending on your preference. If you’re doing a lot of other things to sway, you may want to finish inside every time, or if you’re not doing much, then you may only want to use one or two of these batches.
NOTE: taking licorice root may lower sperm count too far if doing abstain, and it also can make frequent release very difficult for some men to accomplish.
For blue, it's much simpler. For maximizing sperm numbers, you want to BD every 2-4 days from AF-O. You can have DH release outside your body if you like, but some evidence indicates that actually DTD helps to increase sperm count and raise male testosterone.
One attempt at O: Traditionally, people TTC a boy with one attempt on O day. In order to do this, you'll just have your husband release (either by himself or using a non-spermicide condom) every 2-3 days until you get a positive OPK, and then DTD once the day after your positive OPK, using that batch for insemination. The downside of this is that if you ovulate on a day other than you were expecting, you might end up with only a 1 day turnaround...so if you DTD on CD 13, expecting to O on CD 14 but instead Oed on CD 15, either you have a 2 day cutoff (some believe this sways pink) or else you have to DTD 2 consecutive days in a row, on both CD 13 and 14 (may lower sperm numbers and sway pink). If this does happen to you, remember that the pink swayers must DTD 7-10 days for frequent release to work or else DTD several times in only a few days. DTD two consecutive days ~probably~ does not sway pink for most guys and the supps your DH is taking for sperm quality, will only help him.
Dual attempts: Some people will want to fit in more than one attempt in their fertile window and I believe this helps sway blue by increasing overall sperm numbers that survive to make it to the egg. In addition, it also raises pH. For example, one couple might O-2 and then again on O, or O-3 and O-1, or even DTD three days in a row, O-2, O-1, and again on O day - this should not diminish your husband’s sperm count and sway pink because it takes 7-10 days of frequent release to do that for most guys (don't do any more than three consecutive days, though). Others will prefer to stick with the traditional timing and have only one attempt on O as described above.
December 28th, 2012, 04:09 PM
Swaying Advice Coach
How many attempts should I do and WHEN?? For pink and blue.
How Many Attempts Should I Do and WHEN??
One of the most common questions on the site is about how many attempts to do, why, and how. Let’s take a closer look and see if we can remove some of the stress and confusion from this topic.
Before we begin, I want to state very clearly that I do not think number of attempts sways very much if at all and we have NO reliable scientific evidence proving that number of attempts and when to do them, sways in any way. Yet for some reason, people seem to expend more worry over frequency patterns and when to BD than any other sway tactic out there.
How many attempts should I do?
It depends! (you knew I was going to say that, didn’t you??) More attempts in the fertile window means greater odds of pregnancy, higher sperm numbers may mean more sons conceived, higher pH in the vagina (semen will help raise vaginal pH) may also favor male conceptions, but at the same time, a lot of ineffective releases prior to the fertile window (see below) may lower sperm numbers overall and lead to more daughters conceived. It is a balancing act for each couple to find the right amount of BD to conceive while still swaying.
Why would number of attempts sway?
We don’t know, quite honestly (you probably knew I was going to say that, too!). It may be that there is some primitive communication between sperm that sways in some fashion (perhaps Y sperm are better able to band together to gain some advantage in penetrating the egg and/or CM while X are better at going it alone or with only a few more sperm to assist), more sperm may signal Y sperm to capacitate more quickly than X or vice versa, more or a higher number of dead sperm, may cause changes in CM consistency that allow Y sperm to make it thru more easily than X (or vice versa), or it may be that the very tiny difference in size between X and Y sperm enables the slightly larger X sperm to penetrate the egg with less assistance while the smaller Y sperm may need more assistance.
You see, it takes the work of more than one sperm cell to penetrate an egg shell – if the egg shell is sufficiently weakened, a slightly smaller-headed sperm (Y) may have a momentary advantage over a larger-headed X sperm due to surface tension (for the same reason a sharpened pencil can be poked thru a piece of paper more easily than an unsharpened pencil.) Fewer sperm at the egg may confer a momentary benefit to a larger-headed X sperm because due to their larger size, they may be better able to push their way into the eggshell prior to it being totally weakened (the sharpened tip of a pencil is much weaker than the blunt tip of an unsharpened one). Or, it may be some combination of all of these things.
But these are “proximate mechanisms” that explain how something might work. They don’t really answer the underlying question of WHY would the number of sperm on hand sway to begin with?
I have wracked my brain to come up with an ultimate mechanism as to why sperm numbers could confer any evolutionary benefit to one gender over another, and I think I have a couple of decent possibilities. Please understand that this is sheer speculation on my part based on a half-dozen studies and some evolutionary biology books I have read, is discussing general trends and possibilities with plenty of exceptions, and is not meant to be in any way offensive to anyone. I debated on leaving this section out all together because I do not want to offend anyone, but I think one of the reasons why people like this site is because we do try to figure out the deeper reasons behind gender swaying rather than just going off blind faith that these tactics actually work for SOME reason. It also demonstrates how both very frequent and very infrequent intercourse might sway for both DH and DW, which I know is a sticking point for some people.
1)Dads Vs. Cads theory: When a guy is having a LOT of sex or NO sex, it sends the same signal to his body – he may not be in regular possession of a woman. This is often true in primates and also in many other mammals and some human cultures as well. Either he’s servicing a lot of women/one woman several times in a row over the span of a few days/weeks, possibly in the short term in a “hit and run” fashion, and may not be around in the future to provide protection and food to the family. Or, he got a one-time opportunity at a woman that he does not normally have access too, and again, may not be around in the future to provide protection and food to the family.
Female offspring tend to have better rates of survival than male offspring do (in nature, in primates) even when there is not a biological father around, firstly because they need fewer calories and less protein to survive/reproduce and their dietary needs can be better met thru gathering, which is typically a female endeavor, but also because when a new male takes over the troop/tribe/clan, he often kills all the male offspring while allowing the females to survive.
In a committed, long term relationship on the other hand, intercourse tends to occur regularly but not every day. Married couples under 30 report having intercourse 2 times a week on average; by 50-59 this rate falls to an average of once a week. Those between 30-50 fall somewhere between the two (link). Intercourse twice a week or so, averages out to be pretty close to the every 2-4 days that equates to max. sperm numbers and health and sways blue.
We have human studies that indicate more sons are born to people in stable, long term relationships (link) and even one that indicated that families with more sons were less likely to divorce than those of all daughters (link). That having been said, many of the families I know with all daughters are in very loving and stable relationships and my now-husband and I were kinda rocky and not very committed when we conceived our first son, so I stress again that there are PLENTY of exceptions and this is not meant to be applicable to everyone or offensive to anyone.
2)Single Moms Need Daughters theory: When a woman is having little/no sex, it may send a signal to her body that there is not a man around regularly and as a result, there may be no protector/provider and a girl offspring would have a better chance of survival for the same reasons mentioned above. We have one study that indicates that this is true (single moms do have more daughters than the population as a whole) and actually Charles Darwin himself studied the issue in his book The Descent of Man and came to the same conclusion . (link)
Women who are in short term, whirlwind relationships that may not be fully committed tend to have more sex in the short term than committed couples do, and so frequent intercourse may also signal the body that a girl offspring conceived during the haze of a fledgling relationship would have a better shot at survival, because the male has not proved himself to be a good protector/provider at that point. Our bodies may “know” on some subconscious level, that intercourse every 2-4 days may mean that a father is around to provide meat and protection to our sons.
Additionally, women may be able to sense and respond to the hormones that a partner provides and may even become more fertile in the presence of a male to whom she is not genetically related (link). Some research indicates that in a home with a stepfather, young girls even enter puberty at younger ages due to these hormonal signals. Things that increase fertility tend to sway blue.
Daughters themselves ~may~ be more of a helpmate to single mothers than sons are. In some primates and many species of birds (human mating patterns closely resemble that of many birds), teenage and adult daughters remain at home helping their mothers to rear siblings, while sons oftentimes are driven off. Primate daughters rear their offspring alongside their mother’s, while dutiful bird daughters actually forgo starting their own families to assist their mothers!!! This assistance from daughters may help to keep her mother and her siblings alive, so the timely birth of a daughter may help to ensure that the entire genetic line has optimal chances of survival.
Enough speculation!! Cut to the chase! What’s the best number and timing of attempts for blue?
For blue swayers, the answer to this question is very simple. Have your husband release every 2-4 days starting at AF, then do several attempts in your 5 day fertile window (O-3, O-2, O-1, O, O+1 – virtually all pregnancies occur from intercourse on these days.) Your best odds of conception come in the three day microwindow (O-2, O-1, O – majority of pregnancies occur from intercourse these three days, O-2 and O-1 more so than O Day. Most blue swayers will want to avoide O+1 because very few conceptions occur that day, and also to eliminate risk of O+1.
As a result, you may want to focus primarily on these three days – three attempts, one on each day of the microwindow, is a great option (you can even skip the O Day attempt if you like because BD on O Day offers rather low odds of conception). On the other hand, since BD every other day may allow sperm numbers to increase inside your husband’s body before ejaculation, you may wish to alternate days instead if you feel more comfortable with that – such as, an attempt on O-3, 2 attempts on O-1, one on O day; or a 2 attempts on O-2 and then 2 attempts on O Day. There is no right or wrong way to do it.
Limiting yourself to a single attempt at O for blue is (apologies Shettles fans) a terrible idea that may even sway PINK by limiting numbers of sperm and sending a signal to your and your husband’s bodies that a girl may have a better chance at survival. Timing doesn’t sway! (link) .) If at all possible, YOU need to be having frequent orgasms and if you are having them WITH your husband during intercourse, that may help.
Blue swayers, do not worry about having 2-5 releases in a short time because you have heard that frequent BD sways pink. First of all, it’s much more likely that frequent release for many days in a row followed by a limited number of attempts, sways pink, not BD 2-5 times in the fertile window. And DTD even 5 days in a row is NOT frequent BD anyway. Frequent release/BD has to be 7-10 consecutive days OR 2-3 releases for a few days before BEGINNING attempts (you may wish to read the directions for pink swayers so you know what NOT to do). There is a big difference between frequent release where a person’s DH releases 7-10 consecutive days in a row before doing only one/a few attempts inside, and having 3-5 attempts INSIDE (or even more) after having had DH release every 2-4 days to maximize sperm numbers for many days before beginning attempts. In the first case you start off with lower sperm numbers and in the other case, you maximize numbers and then add to it!
People who don’t really understand the basic principle of why FR sways (lowering sperm numbers) worry that by having so many attempts, they somehow give X sperm the upper hand. But this simply isn’t true, because it’s not about altering the numbers of X vs. Y (impossible!), it’s about lowering vs. maximizing sperm numbers. Both X and Y sperm are produced and released in equal proportions no matter how many attempts you do, so by doing more attempts, blue swayers, you’re adding more and more sperm to the amount being stored in your reproductive tract.
Not only that, but when you are swaying blue, you are doing everything in your power to up sperm survivability. Your husband is taking supps and releasing every 2-4 days to maximize sperm production, and you are taking supps, dieting, and altering your lifestyle to improve CM and up sperm survival rates. Not only are you starting off with more and healthier sperm coming from your DH to begin with, you’re then adding sperm by doing more than one attempt, and then you’re keeping the most sperm alive that you possibly can! Doing more than one attempt, in your fertile window (esp. the microwindow) under those circumstances WILL sway blue by upping numbers of sperm.
The one thing you do need to beware, blue swayers, is wasting a lot of effort on ineffective releases. It’s not a good idea to assume, well, if more sperm = more boys, we should start our BD at CD 1 and have sex every day thru ovulation. That may actually tend to sway pink because your earliest attempts cannot achieve pregnancy and all those sperm will simply die because your reproductive tract is hostile early in your cycle. Your husband’s sperm count will go down after several days of release, and then when your fertile window opens, it’s likely that he will no longer be producing as much sperm as he was at the beginning of the month, so even if you do more attempts to add more sperm, you’ll be adding fewer sperm than if he had released every 2-4 days before your attempts. It’s best to have your husband release every 2-4 days from CD1 thru when you want to begin your attempts to maximize sperm production, then limit your unprotected attempts to the fertile window.
Shocking advice – during the time when you are having your husband release 2-4 days, not only is it a great idea to have intercourse WITH him and have an orgasm, you may want to assist him either vaginally without a condom (as long as you’re not fertile right then) or orally (and swallow if you can!!) Some data has indicated that women are sensitive to chemical components in male semen and may even possibly be able to differentiate between semen of different partners – in other words, your body may be able to tell you are having regular intercourse with a consistent monogamous partner. This may help to send the signal to your body that a father figure, protector, and provider is around to guarantee survival of male offspring.
So what is the best number and timing of attempts for pink?
Pink swayers, things are a little more complicated for you. What works for one couple to lower sperm count enough to sway pink, in another couple will make it impossible to conceive. Deciding how many attempts to do can be like an episode of the Price is Right – you are trying to ensure you have enough sperm to conceive, without going over!! (you may want to read the blue section as well so you know what NOT to do.)
In order to decide how many attempts to do, first ask yourself these questions.
How big a hurry am I in to get pregnant? If you have a long time to try, you may wish to start off doing fewer attempts or even just one. Obviously, if you have only three months to conceive due to work or other issues, you will want to have more attempts to maximize odds of pregnancy.
What is my age and my husband’s age? If you are older, you need to get pregnant as quickly as you can because your fertile window – meaning, the months and years left to you to conceive before menopause, not the days of the month you are most likely to conceive in - is closing rapidly. It may even take you longer to get pregnant doing nothing at all to sway because you may have to await a healthy egg if your body is not producing one every month. Older women’s eggs may not live as long, and their shells may be harder for sperm to penetrate. If your husband is older, his sperm count may be lower, his sperm may be less healthy, slower swimming, and may not live as long. Older couples may NEED more than one attempt to conceive at all.
What else am I doing to sway? Unlike blue swayers, pink swayers are doing myriad things that lower sperm numbers and reduce sperm quality such as licorice root, hot baths, tighty whiteys, jump and dump, and abstinence/FR/CFR; reduce sperm survivability in the female reproductive tract such as jellies, antihistamines, douching, lime tampon, diet/supps, at home HT methods like EGS and TBM; and sometimes even lower odds that sperm will even meet the egg to begin with, such as timing methods like cutoff and O+12. You may need to do more than one attempt in your fertile window to allow the sperm a fighting chance.
Note – you may have read online fantastic tales about people who allegedly did every sway tactic under the sun 110% and claim to have gotten pregnant very easily despite this. Please take these stories with a grain of salt. This is the Internet and we have no way of knowing how truthful these reports are, not to mention that every couple is different and one person’s body may be so good at producing sperm/CM that they are able to conceive (and conceive opposites) despite doing a lot of other things to sway. Other people may have to forgo almost all sway tactics to conceive. This may be true for you even if you have conceived other children before very easily.
If you are on Clomid, you must do whatever it takes to get pregnant as quickly as possible, including doing more than one attempt in your fertile window, because it’s not healthy to stay on Clomid in the long term.
How much weight do I have to lose and how easy is it for me to stick to diet? - If you have a lot of weight to lose you may want to start off doing a very strict sway with one attempt and be prepared to get BFN at first. Others have next to no weight to lose and need to get pregnant immediately because they cannot be on diet more than a few weeks, so should start off doing more attempts. Some people enjoy the LE Diet and are happy on it for months, while for others, it chafes at every meal and the risk of cheating skyrockets with every day that passes. If you are doing IGD or FGD, you can only stay on those diets for 6 months tops before having to take a month off anyway. You should consider all these things when deciding how many attempts you choose to do.
How helpful is my DH? If your DH is not supportive of swaying and you are fearful that at any second, he’ll pull the plug on the entire let’s-make-a-baby adventure and drag you to a therapist, it may behoove you to do whatever it takes to keep him happy. If that means doing a lot of attempts in all the wrong patterns, DO THEM. Pick your battles – if you can’t get pg, you have no shot at your DG and you can’t get pg alone. There has been more than one occasion where the husband simply had enough with swaying and said, “No more.”
At the same time, if your husband is super helpful and taking his licorice root, wearing tighty whiteys, taking hot baths, riding a bike, abstain or FR, and so on, you may NEED to do more than one attempt to get pg because his sperm numbers will be so much lower than they were to begin with. Anyone whose husband has low sperm count to begin with, also needs to do more than one attempt to improve odds of pg.
How devastating will it be for me to get a BFN? Most swayers start off thinking that it will be ok to get BFN. Some even make claims that they are willing to go from now until menopause getting BFN rather than compromise on their sway. But as the months begin to go by, it really takes a toll to see those BFN pile up. You can have the most beautiful sway on the planet and if you do not get pregnant, it is all for nothing – you may as well save your effort and take a birth control pill. People get opposites even from “perfect” sways all the time unfortunately, and it may be a good idea to get pg sooner, rather than later, because there are no guarantees. It would suck to take two years to conceive and still get an opposite (and yes, this actually did happen to someone.)
Sharing my perspective, I was in a big hurry to do my attempt when swaying for DS 4 due to my age, and got pg very quickly while many others, even other older moms, who were swaying at the same time as I was, went for all “7 sway factors” and took much longer on average to conceive than I did (some never did conceive, unfortunately). I heard thru the grapevine that some thought I deserved what I got because I “compromised” my sway by being in too big a hurry to get pregnant, but in the end I had time to try again and did get my girl (and a truly spectacular little DS 4 as well!)
If I had wasted even a little more time swaying with DS 4, getting pg with DD would not have happened for me. This is especially true for those moms who are in their mid to late 30’s – swaying cannot guarantee 100% success no matter how thorough a sway you do, and so it may be wiser to compromise in favor of conception, rather than squandering months/years trying to have a “perfect”sway, since even “perfect” sways may produce opposites. You’ll ensure you’ll still have time to try again (even if you don’t think you will, at least the option will be there).
This is actually something to consider seriously even in your early 30’s. I know it’s hard to believe at 34 that you don’t have a lot of time left, but it really is true. 2 years of swaying plus 2 years pg/recovery can easily put you at 38 years old in the blink of an eye. Please don’t waste precious time from your fertile window, chasing after sway tactics that may not even sway much if at all.
By now, pink swayers, you probably have a pretty good handle on the number of attempts you’re going to aim for, so I’ll lay out some examples and options
Firstly, you will want to have your husband reduce sperm numbers by frequency patters (link) IF he is willing to do so. If not, that’s ok, you can have a great sway and many people have conceived girls doing boy frequency. And remember, you are not locked into any of these tactics. You can start off doing a very strict sway and then loosen up over time, or you may find that something you thought would work for you as a couple, you or DH simply do not enjoy doing. Feel free to switch, it’s not written in stone!
What are the options for pink swayers?
Abstain + 1 attempt: If you choose to do abstain, you are pretty much limited to one attempt by definition. I think it is best to time that attempt for maximum odds of pregnancy (timing doesn’t sway!) Your best odds of conception are at O-2 and O-1, and since BD at positive OPK (O-1) tends to be much less stressful for people rather than blindly guessing at O-2, my advice is to BD once at pos OPK with abstain.
If you are really sold on Shettles, then you’ll want to try for an attempt on O-2.
When swaying pink, your internal environment is so harsh to begin with that it is very difficult to get pg with BD on O-3, but if you’re not doing anything else to sway, you can give that a try. I really don’t recommend that, however. You may be able to use a fade in on your OPK to help you pinpoint O-2, but these are not always accurate or even present.
If you’re sold on O+12, BD 48 hours after a positive OPK (this is the least stressful method of O+12). Again, I do not recommend this method, particularly with abstain, because sperm just may not be very healthy or capable after many days of abstaining and may not be able to make it to the egg in time, and it limits your odds of pregnancy drastically because many eggs don’t even live much longer than 12 hours past ovulation.
Note – you may notice I am skipping BD on O day for anyone doing just one attempt. The reason for this is nothing to do with timing, but simply because BD on O Day has significantly lower odds of conception than BD on O-1 or O-2. When you’re doing one attempt you need to time that attempt for best odds of conception and BD on O Day does not give you best odds. Plus, since it’s traditionally a blue sway tactic, it seems doubtful that anyone being strict enough to limit themselves to one attempt would even want to BD on O Day. Even tho timing doesn’t sway, I know that many people do want to keep it in the mix.
FR + 1 attempt: If you choose frequent release instead, you may wish to limit yourself to one attempt. I personally believe attempt at pos OPK is easiest, but you have equally good odds of conception on O-2. Have DH release 7-10 times before your attempt. Do NOT count your attempt in the 7 days (see below).
Since sperm are generally healthier with FR than abstain, you may even wish to push it to O-3 for the first month or two – not my advice, but it is possible.
O+12 may have better odds of conception with FR than abstain – not my preferred method by a longshot but it may be slightly easier to conceive doing O+12, with FR, rather than abstain.
FR + many attempts: If you read the TTC blue section, you may recall the fertile window – the 5 days around ovulation where intercourse is most likely to yield conception. (O-3, O-2, O-1, O, O+1.) And you may also recall the microwindow (O-2, O-1, and to a much lesser extent, O Day) which are the days most likely to yield conception. If you are doing FR, you have the option of having attempts on more than one of these days in the fertile window in whatever pattern you like. 2 days, 3 days, all 5 days, alternating days, 10 attempts in 5 days – it’s up to you. There are so many options (prob. with as much difference between them as a dime vs. 2 nickels) that I won’t even list them, but I do strongly urge you to BD on either O-2 or O-1 or both for the best odds of pg.
Be sure that you have your DH release 7-10 days in a row before your FIRST attempt. There is nothing magic about just DTD 7 days in a row, you have to deplete his sperm numbers by having him release 7-10 days PRIOR to attempts. Some people have thought to include their attempts in this 7-10 day time period, but this has the potential to sway blue because DH will only have a couple of releases before the earliest attempts that might get you pregnant. His sperm numbers will just not be depleted enough without the FULL 7-10 days of release before the earliest attempt in your fertile window.
Compressed FR + 1 attempt or many attempts: You can use this as a technique itself, or as a rescue if something happens and either abstain or FR goes awry. For CFR, you will need to begin the process at least 2 days before the earliest attempt that can get you pregnant. Earlier in the month, have your husband release every 2-4 days to ensure there will be a good amount of sperm production going in – no need to abstain or do regular FR beforehand and it may even deplete sperm numbers too far to do so. The first two days of the CFR cycle, the 2 days prior to your earliest attempts, have your husband release 2-3 times (or even more if he can, more is better) and dump all these batches.
The third day, have him release once in the morning and dump it. If he CAN, have him release right when he gets home from work (or in the afternoon if it’s his day off) and dump that. Then, that evening, have your attempt, either a single attempt or the first of many. If you want to do many attempts with CFR, at some point you will want to drop the mid-day release. Your husband probably will not be able to keep up with that much releasing and also it may reduce sperm numbers too far.
To use CFR as a rescue with abstain + 1 attempt, if something happens (nocturnal emission or a moment of weakness) and the abstain is interrupted, have him switch to CFR 2 days before your planned attempt. Have him release 2-3 times for 2 days, then have your attempt, with a release in the morning, a release at midday, and then an attempt that evening. Since you’re only doing one attempt, you may want to skip the midday release.
If it’s the last minute and your attempt is within 48 hours (not enough time to complete the CFR cycle) please see “Hurry-Up CFR” below.
To use CFR as a rescue with FR (illness, exhaustion, you got interrupted one night by children, inlaws, or zombies) if you miss a day, have him release 2 times for 2 consecutive days and then resume the normal FR pattern. If it’s the last minute and your attempt is within the next day, please see “Hurry-Up CFR” below.
Hurry-Up CFR: I don’t love this technique because I think it may lower sperm numbers too much to overcome lots of other sway strategies, and it’s also very hard and stressful for some men to do (esp. while on licorice root!) BUT, it is a viable rescue method, as a last minute technique if you suddenly decide to attempt in a month you were planning to skip, and may be something to consider if your husband just really cannot or will not do any other frequency strategies. If you do decide to go with H-CFR, keep in mind that you may not want to use any jellies, might want to skip antihistamine (at least the day of your attempt) and you prob. should not do a jump and dump, to make sure that something is able to survive make it into the cervix. It may not be very much of a deposit and may not have as much semen to protect the sperm (also fewer in number) and so you need a less harsh environment for the sperm to survive in.
To do an H-CFR, DH should release once and dump it, then as SOON as he is possibly able to, you should have an attempt. Don’t go any more than 3-6 hours between rounds and sooner is better. This will yield a small batch of semen with fewer sperm in it.
Abstain then CFR: Again, this is not a strategy I personally love, for the reason that abstaining and then getting a lot of sex may kick sperm production into a higher gear for some men and so then your subsequent attempts run the risk of being higher in sperm numbers than they might have otherwise been (and it will all be super fresh and extra healthy, because your husband’s body had shut down most sperm production during the abstain). But for people who want to include timing and have a cutoff AND O+12, it is a way to keep abstain and timing both in the mix if you are a big believer in those strategies, while still improving odds of pg. Please be aware, if you go this route with O+12, the odds are quite high that it will be the first batch of sperm that gets you pregnant and not the O+12. If you LOVE O+12, then you need to do just O+12.
For abstain with cutoff plus O+12 (link) have your husband abstain for 7-10 days prior to your first attempt. Have your first attempt on O-3 or O-2 with the abstain batch (do NOT have him release and then dump it, use the abstain batch for your one attempt). Have your husband immediately switch to CFR and begin releasing 2-3 times a day for the next couple of days. Dump all these batches. 48 hours after a positive OPK, have another attempt using the second batch of that day (dump the first.)
For abstain and then BD thru O, have your husband abstain for 7-10 days prior to your first attempt. The timing of your first attempt is at your discretion. O-3, O-2, O-1 are all viable options. You may even wish to have two attempts back to back within 3-6 hours (see Hurry-Up CFR above). The next day, have DH release 3 times, dumping the first two and using only the last batch for insemination (it is possible to use the second batch instead, but with this method it’s best to at least TRY for three releases the first day, anyway). Repeat for as many days as you like, keeping in mind that any attempts past O+1 will be wasted. If at some point after a day or two, he can’t keep up the pace, you can switch to just doing 2 releases, but it’s best for at least the first couple days after the abstain, to try for 3 releases, using only the third.
December 28th, 2012, 04:11 PM
Swaying Advice Coach
Best sex positions for babies of a particular gender, or just getting pregnant!
Or just conceiving, period! Remember that everything that seems to help with fertility, seems to sway blue! So if you're just trying to conceive, take a closer look at the recommendations for blue swayers, because they can help you get pregnant. I will list the benefits and detriments of each.
Positions that increase fertility and probably sway BLUE
Missionary position with DEEP penetration and ejaculation - Allows for deep penetration which helps distribute EWCM throughout the vagina and if the ejaculation is deep, it deposits sperm right at the opening of the cervix. It also allows DW to lie still for 30 minutes after DTD to keep sperm and semen inside the vagina for longer, which also helps increase fertility and sways blue.
If you put your legs over DH's shoulders, it can allow for even deeper penetration! (Thanks TTC5 for this handy hint!!)
Some women have difficulty reaching orgasm in this position, and orgasm is great for TTC blue because it increases CM. Old wives tales say that the missionary position is good for TTC PINK. Who knows why, but I would suspect it's because the man has a lot of control while in the missionary position. He can penetrate very deeply or very shallowly. A very shallow deposit while in the missionary position WILL sway pink because most of the semen and sperm will come out almost right away and whatever is left will have to pass through the lower pH, more hostile vagina before making it safely to the cervix. I don't think it's 100% trustworthy for swaying though, because a shallow deposit is pretty hard to get just right and there are too many other variables at play to make it dependable for swaying pink.
Doggy style - Allows for deep penetration and ejaculation. Dr. Shettles believed doggy-style was the best way to conceive a son.
In order to lie down and keep maximum sperm inside, DW will have to do a lot of maneuvering after BD. Also, many women have a hard time orgasming in this position and some couples feel like it diminishes intimacy. Intimacy sometimes gets diminished too much as it is while TTC.
Spooning - This is my personal fave for TTC blue and I very likely conceived both DS 3 and 4 this way (with DS 3 I didn't know any better and with DS 4 I was on a swaying break and I ovulated unexpectedly). It allows for deep penetration and deep ejaculation and it allows the woman to lie still after DTD. You can even fall asleep that way after BD and the semen and sperm will stay near your cervix all night!!
It is hard for some women to orgasm in this position.
These positions are not as good for conceiving, and seem to sway pink.
Missionary position with very shallow penetration and ejaculation. Not penetrating very deeply keeps the EWCM from spreading throughout the vagina and a shallow ejaculation means that the sperm will have to survive the hostile environment of the vagina before making it safely to the cervix. Also, a lot of the semen comes out right away.
Hard for the man to control the depth of penetration and ejaculation and easy to screw up on. The woman is lying down when ejaculation takes place, and the force of gravity will pull some semen towards the cervix, even if she immediately gets up afterwards.
Woman on top. Gravity will help keep the semen and sperm away from the vagina. It is possible to avoid very deep penetration/ejaculation. It's easy to do a jump and dump right afterwards.
It is very hard to control the depth of penetration and ejactulation - too easy to screw up. Gravity will help pull EWCM into the vagina. Also, many women find this to be an arousing position and may make more EWCM and find it difficult to not orgasm.
Standing up - My personal fave for TTC pink. Penetration tends to be shallow, gravity is on your side, and you're already standing up so doing a jump and dump is very simple. Many women find it hard to become aroused while standing (but that may work for swaying pink!). Men sometimes like it as a change of pace and it can help spice up otherwise boring swaying sex!!
If you DTD standing up in the shower, even better! Hot showers are rumored to be good for swaying pink and if you wash yourself ahead of time, you will wash away a lot of CM (be careful not to use soap as it is alkaline.)
It's hard to do and gravity will pull EWCM into the vagina. Men may find it difficult to orgasm in this position. Injuries have occured Old wives' tales say it is good for TTC a boy.
December 28th, 2012, 04:12 PM
Swaying Advice Coach
big girls, little girls, and baby girls (and boys!!)
Let's take a closer look at weight, body type, and gender ratio.
One question that seems to arise frequently is, if weight loss truly tends to sway for girls, why is it that bigger women often have many girls (an observation made by several people both on IG and GD sites, completely independent of each other - not trying to generalize or offend anyone). And how can a ridiculously thin woman like Victoria Beckham have 3 boys?
Before we revisit the idea of why very thin women and women eating reduced calories might have more girls, let's ask perhaps a more important question. DO thin women and women eating reduced calories truly have more girls? The answer to this question seems to be yes, they do.
Maternal eating disorders influenc... [Acta Obstet Gynecol Scand. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI In a study involving almost 40,000 women, anorexics and bulemics have more daughters while binge eaters and women with EDNOS-P, defined here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_...wise_specified which is anorexia/strange eating patterns where the BMI does not go below normal and the menstrual cycle is not affected, have more sons. The Oxford study also found that women who eat lower calories http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.o.../1661.abstract do indeed have more daughters than is statistically expected.
There are actually several reasons why this may be the case.
LOW PROTEIN - If you eat less calories, you may tend to eat less protein. A vegetarian diet has been shown to sway pink in humans http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...ave-more-girls. A high protein diet has been shown to skew the gender ratio towards males in gilts. http://jas.fass.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/2/329
LOW FAT - Again, less calories tends to mean less fat inake. A high fat diet has been shown to skew the gender ratio towards males in mice. http://www.pnas.org/content/100/8/4628.full.pdf
LOW BLOOD SUGAR - Thinness and weight loss both reduce blood sugar levels and insulin resistance, making your body more efficient at eliminating sugar from the blood. There are hundreds of links about this on Google, too many to post. Skipping meals also keeps blood sugar low, so a habitual meal skipper may inadvertently sway pink regardless of any other factors in their diet.
WEIGHT LOSS - Weight loss itself might sway for several reasons. When a person eats an inadequate amount for their level of activity, their bodies quickly burn off the available blood glucose and glycogen (the form of glucose stored in liver and in muscle tissues). Then, in order to manufacture the glucose a body needs for its metabolic functions, the body begins to cannibalize its own muscle tissue, breaking down the protein into its basic components, one side effect of which is releasing acids into the bloodstream. Add in frequent intense exercise that produces other acids as well, and it is easy to see how crash dieting and over exercise can make your body very acidic.
Also, weight loss can also lower muscle mass, lowering testosterone, and lower testosterone is hypothesized to be one mechanism that might sway gender. Here are three of dozens of studies/articles on this topic. http://www.bio.davidson.edu/courses/...01Dom/Dom.html http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/con.../5/1133.2.full Paternal HLA genotype and offspring sex ratio. [Hum Biol. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI
Losing weight also lowers blood sugar levels and improves insulin response even if you do not do any other thing to control blood sugar in any way.
HORMONE LEVELS - Fat cells make estrogen, and muscle needs testosterone to build/maintain itself so the more muscle you have, the more testosterone your body produces. Estrogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://www.ehow.com/about_5173145_te...e-growth_.html So it logically follows that at any time your body has more/less and/or fat/muscle (fun with grammar) that the levels of hormones in your body will be altered in response.
MINERAL LEVELS - If a person is eating less food overall, their intake of sodium ~may~ be lower (the Oxford study found that moms who had sons both ate more calories and had a higher intake of sodium and potassium than moms who had daughters.) AT the same time however, it also seems that their intake of calcium and magnesium may be lower (particularly in anorexics and vegans) due to lower food intake, and it also seems that potassium intake might be higher in vegan/vegetarians than in women who eat a more animal-food based diet, since potassium is found in large amounts in fruits and vegetables.
That having been said, since skim dairy is often a staple food of dieters it may be that even on a very low-cal diet, at least some very thin women still have a high cal-mag intake if they include a lot of dairy products in their diet. Skim dairy has also been shown to lower fertility overall while full-fat dairy raises it, so it may sway pink in that way.
But none of these things really explain how BOTH heavy and very thin women might have more daughters.
While it's easy to envision a scenario where a woman who eats more calories takes in more calcium/magnesium, that doesn't seem to be the case. The Oxford study found that moms who had the highest caloric intake and the highest calcium intake, had more BOYS, which flies in the face of the mineral theories, but the French Gender Diet claims that it's the ratio of minerals that matters and not the intake itself.
Hormones are almost certainly of a different composition in very heavy women, although they may also have lower muscle mass (as a percentage of body mass), so they may be more like very thin women in this regard.
Heavy women may also follow certain diets/eating patterns like lowfat diets or skipping meals that contribute both to their weight issues and also inadvertently sway pink.
One thing both very heavy and very thin women absolutely with 100% certainty do have in common (in terms of swaying) is reduced fertility.
LOWER GENERAL FERTILITY - One of the commonly accepted truisms of swaying seems to be that whatever increases overall fertility seems to sway blue, and whatever diminshes fertility seems to sway pink. BMI out of the normal range in either direction has reduced odds of successful IVF http://forum.lowcarber.org/archive/i.../t-100727.html Obesity has been shown to reduce fertility in both men and women http://journals.lww.com/co-endocrino...tility.11.aspx (one study of MANY) as does being overly thin. http://www.preconception.com/article...conceive-3727/ Even just sudden weight loss can be enough to wreak havoc with the menstrual cycle, as many of us already know.
Now let's talk real world applications. Why might a heavy mom have more daughters???
It may be that her natural setting is more pink friendly. She may have lowered fertility due to her weight, altered hormone levels, have a higher cal-mag intake, and in addition, she may eat a carb-heavy, lowfat, low protein diet, the likes of which was recommended for weight loss for many years and which was proven to sway pink in mice (see above for link).
A high intake of refined carbs also contributes to a crash-and-burn scenario where blood sugar actually plummets after eating sugary foods. When a person eats primarily quick burning, empty carbs like white bread, candy, pasta, and so forth, their blood sugar goes up very high and very fast. This triggers an insulin response; the body releases large amounts of insulin to counteract the sugar in the blood. And then the blood sugar drops even lower than it was to start with - the body runs out of its preferred quick burning glucose/glycogen and begins devouring its own tissue for energy. This leads to intense cravings for sugary foods and just perpetuates the entire cycle again and again.
Also, an excess of sugar in the blood feeds yeast and other microorganisms that release acids as they digest those sugars, so anyone eating a lot of sugar is pretty much turning their body into an acid factory.
A diet high in sugar/refined carbs may actually cause low blood glucose, signaling to the body that a girl pregnancy is desirable and contributing to an acid environment. If this seems farfetched, you may be surprised to hear that researchers lowered blood glucose to dangerous levels in test animals by feeding them nothing but sugar (I have the study for this but I can't find it right now!!).
Conversely, she may go on a crash diet just prior to when she plans on becoming pregnant and inadvertently sways pink with every pregnancy without realizing it. If this sounds farfetched to you, I know several people who have done just that on numerous occasions.
She may also be married to a heavy guy and being overweight has been shown to lower sperm count and testosterone levels in men, while raising their estrogen levels. Overweight men are more likely to father daughters.
Why might some thin women have many sons?
If being thin sways pink, why do I (my friend, my sis, my mom) have so many boys?
Remember, it's not what you look like on the outside that counts in swaying. It's what is happening within your body. Your weight and even your diet is irrelevant if your overall body chemistry is more friendly towards a particular gender. If you're superthin and yet highly fertile, you are going to be more likely to conceive boys regardless of your weight or anything you put into your mouth.
Many women stay thin because of their eating habits, not in spite of them - a diet of lean protein, healthy fats, and lots of fruits and vegetables is going to sway blue even if you wear a size 0 and it will keep you thin as well. Muscle mass takes up less room on the body and burns way more calories than fat does, so you can be quite lean-looking and yet still have large muscles and be able to eat/burn more calories than a heavier person does - and with more calories, may come higher sodium/potassium/protein/nutrient intake and steady blood sugar levels. Also, some genetic factors such as height, make a person more apt to have muscle regardless of diet - a tall thin person can have much more muscle than a short thin person and still seem quite slender.
The testosterone factor cannot be overlooked either - the amounts of testosterone women have in their bodies is miniscule so you do not need to be big, burly, or mannish to have higher testosterone levels. In fact, some very thin women are highly driven and competitive due to higher testosterone and that is WHY they are able to stay so thin - they may be athletic, lift weights, and be very careful to follow a very healthful diet because they have the tendency to be a bit obsessive, competitive, and ever-so-slightly a control freak.
One thing that I have observed and I don't mean this to be in any way offensive to anyone struggling, but there seem to be a very high number of women recovering from eating disorders amongst the moms with many boys. It seems well within the realm of possibility that women who have had eating disorders may be naturally higher in testosterone than women who haven't (the desire for control and tendency to obsess seem to play a part in eating disorders). Also, if food was very restricted but is now more plentiful, it may inadvertently signal the body that times were hard but now they're better (even if you're not eating very much food, as long as you're eating more) and your body may take that as a cue that a boy would have an improved chance for survival. If you have ever struggled with an eating disorder, PLEASE be very careful with diet in your sway, not only for your health but also to avoid the rise in testosterone that comes with obsessiveness. You can still have a good sway WITHOUT diet if you need to.
Some women who are on the thin side, may also begin to eat very healthfully prior to conceiving, and end up swaying blue without even realizing it. I did this with one of my sons and I actually ended up gaining 3 lbs the month before I conceived!! Other thin women may actually have to gain weight just to be able to conceive. One of my friends from IG who used to be a model (seriously!!) has conceived 4 boys and she always has to gain weight before she gets pregnant or she cannot conceive.
You also have to consider what the male brings to the equation...I think we all probably agree that men like Tom Brady, David Beckham, and Gavin Rossdale just LOOK like they should make a lot of gorgeous athletic boys just like themselves (rawr...is it getting warm in here??) and there are scientific reasons like testosterone to back it up but let's just picture them without their shirts on instead.
Finally, ask yourself this question and be honest - ARE you (your friend, mom, sis) really that thin? I know that I'm not. Personally, I look thin because I have a small chest but I'm packing a lot of extra pounds on my legs and bum and I've never conceived at less than 125 pounds (which is kind of a lot for me because I"m short) and for 3 of the 4 I was more like 130-135.
So, in the case of Victoria Beckham, she may just be maintaining at a weight that is natural for her. Some people are naturally very thin, and their body chemistry is just accustomed to supporting their metabolism at that weight. She clearly spends a lot of effort maintaining her physique, so she probably eats very carefully and works out, probably with weights by the looks of her. Perhaps she even gains a bit of weight for health purposes just prior to TTC. Or she may just have very high testosterone naturally (and she claims to have PCOS so this may be the case) and this naturally high T level makes her more likely to have boys. And of course David brings something to the table as well.
Ok, so if both ways work, why don’t we just eat a bunch of sugar and gain weight to get girls? Health issues aside, it’s because each individual’s body chemistry is just too different. Anyone with insulin resistance (meaning their cells aren’t very responsive to insulin‘s effects) might raise their blood glucose levels and end up conceiving a boy when they wanted a girl. But since every person’s blood glucose levels drop when they eat less sugar, lose weight, and exercise, in addtion to the benefits that weight loss has on lowering testosterone and reducing overall fertility, it seems like that is the more reliable path to take when TTC a girl.
December 28th, 2012, 04:13 PM
Swaying Advice Coach
the calcium conundrum - CONTROVERSIAL http://genderdreaming.com/forum/tryi...roversial.html
Apologies in advance for rocking the boat, but I really want people to get their desired gender. We must be willing to take a hard look at even the most universally accepted ideas behind gender ratio if we want to unravel the mysteries of swaying.
The conventional swaying wisdom has been to take high levels of calcium to sway pink. In fact, the French Gender Diet claims a staggering 80% success rate from diet and supplements alone. This has never felt 100% right to me because I've always eaten a lot of dairy and have 4 boys, and several other ladies have had the same experience. After my sway failed while I was taking truly massive quantities of calcium, magnesium, and Vitamin D and I witnessed several other similar failed sways I began to really question this.
Firstly, there are entire cultures that eat lots of dairy/very little dairy and everything in between, and yet the rates of boys to girls worldwide stays right around 50-50, with always a few more boys born than girls. If a high-calcium, magnesium, Vit. D, low sodium/potassium diet was a magic bullet for conceiving girls (or even had 80% success rate), shouldn't we see at least a slight variation in gender ratio between a culture where dairy foods are rarely eaten (should have at least SOME more boys than statistically expected), and one in which they are a staple (should have at least SOME more girls than statistically expected), even if the ratio never shifted from around 50-50. In fact, the opposite is actually true. Scandinavia, where dairy foods are a staple, has one of the highest boy to girl ratio of anywhere on the planet, with 106-108 boys born for every 100 girls.
Secondly, humanity didn't even begin to evolve the ability to digest dairy products until 8000 years ago. Until that point, no human adults were physically capable of digesting the lactose in dairy foods. We had not even domesticated animals much prior to that, and it's mighty difficult to milk a wooly mammoth even if you could digest their milk. Lactose actually aids in calcium absorption, so even if they were getting calcium through other foods, it was more difficult to absorb than the calcium in dairy. Yet, both males and females were being born throughout antiquity - if they hadn't been, the human race would have died out long ago.
Only within the last 100 years did we even begin to have the refrigeration capability to store dairy year round anyway. Even among people who could digest lactose, until quite recently, milk was not the dietary staple it is nowadays. Once the cow stopped giving milk, that was it for the year - folks couldn't just run to the corner store to pick up a gallon of milk. High-sodium cheese (forbidden on the FGD) was much more likely to be eaten than milk and even that was eaten sparingly.
Yogurt was an anomaly in many cultures until the 1970's - my great-grandma who gave birth to 6 daughters, never tasted it in her life. You youngsters may not believe this but I actually remember the first time I tasted yogurt and I am only 40 years old. My mom bought it at a health food store because it was so unusual that the grocery store didn't carry it!!!
Another point to consider is that most of the world is STILL unable to digest milk products. According to Wikipedia, 75% of ALL adults worldwide are unable to digest lactose to a greater or lesser extent. 90% of people of African and Asian descent are unable to digest dairy foods, as are a significant number of Hispanic and Native American people. Yet there is very little variation in the gender ratio...it still hovers right around 50-50 regardless of ethnicity. In fact, studies have found that people living around the equator, who tend to be of African, Asian, and Hispanic heritage and therefore largely incapable of digesting dairy, actually have MORE daughters than people who live in colder climates, many of whom have dairy as a dietary staple.
The FGD claims it is the ratio of calcium to sodium that matters, and so some have suggested that perhaps in some of these cultures, they eat so little sodium that even though they eat little calcium, the ratio of calcium to sodium is still high and that's why they have more daughters. That is completely unsubstantiated by the facts. In fact, people of African descent actually have a gene that causes them to retain high levels of sodium in their bodies, as a defense against dehydration and malaria. So not only are most people of African descent genetically incapable of eating dairy foods, they also have higher levels of sodium in their blood than people of Northern European descent, who eat the most dairy, do. They also eat more fresh fruits and vegetables year round and get more potassium than many in Western countries do, (as do Asians and some Hispanic countries). Their cuisines are based around fruits and vegetables and whole grains, all very rich in potassium. Yet the gender ratio in most African countries (and among African Americans as well) is much lower than the countries that eat the most dairy.
It has also been suggested that this paradox can be explained by increases in Vitamin D intake - people who live around the equator may absorb more Vitamin D through sunlight (humans manufacture Vitamin D from sunlight), and therefore are able to absorb more calcium than people in more northern climates. However, dairy products in the United States, Canada, and many European countries are fortified with Vitamin D, but they are STILL having more boys despite this.
At the same time, people with darker skins (in equatorial countries where more girls are being born) actually have some trouble absorbing Vitamin D, despite living in a sunnier environment. Rickets is a big problem in Asia and Middle Eastern countries and parts of Africa, and many Middle Eastern women are severely Vitamin D deficient because they are never exposed to sunlight due to their clothing. They may not even be getting much Vitamin D, and therefore absorbable calcium, regardless of where they live. Shouldn't they be having way more sons??
Some intriguing studies have been published recently, stating that slightly more baby girls were conceived Feb-May and slightly more baby boys were conceived in October. These studies were done in Italy, where Vitamin D levels would be lowest in Feb-May and highest in late fall (after a summer spent storing up Vitamin D) when the most boys were conceived.
Since Vitamin D controls calcium absorption, this seems to indicate that more girls were conceived during a time period of lowest calcium absorption, and more boys were conceived during a period of highest calcium absorption. In Italy, between 20-50% of all adults (70% of Sicilians) are lactose intolerant so it is unlikely that they were simply drinking lots of milk. Cheese is a large part of the Italian diet, but most cheese is not Vit. D fortified, and my understanding is that they don't traditionally eat much yogurt there either.
If calcium really was of critical importance in conceiving girls, wouldn't we expect the exact opposite to occur? As Vitamin D levels went up in summer, wouldn't more calcium be absorbed and more girls be conceived and as they dropped in the winter, wouldn't calcium levels drop and more boys be conceived?
According to the Trivers Willard hypothesis, high intake of nutrients sways blue, not pink, and it just seems highly unlikely that calcium would be the one exception to that. The findings of a study that tracked maternal nutrient intake http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.o.../275/1643/1661, found that more nutrients across the board, including calcium = more boys conceived.
High fertility seems to equal more sons and full-fat dairy is supposed to help raise overall fertility. Full-fat dairy products are also very high in fat and protein and since evidence indicates we should shrink our muscle mass to lower our testosterone levels, the less protein and fat we eat, the better.
Personally, if I had my sway to do again, I would not take the cal-mag-Vit. D at all, but since most people want to hedge their bets, it may be best to only take cal/mag/vit. D in pill form and eating only limited amounts of skim dairy products, because you're getting more calcium while avoiding the protein and fat present in dairy products. (UPDATE - I did sway again and conceived a daughter after 4 sons eating the lowest amount of calcium I have ever eaten in my entire life in addition to higher sodium and adequate potassium.)
I'm not saying that calcium doesn't have some role to play, but just want everyone to be aware that we don't fully understand what mechanisms are at play, and that calcium is NOT a magic bullet. No one should rely on a high calcium diet ALONE to sway - the science may not support it.
ALSO PLEASE READ the second part of this essay - http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...-part-2-a.html
AND the third part of this essay - http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...ucting-the-FGD
Also, you will want to read the discussions at the end of all three essays, particularly the third essay, for more info.
December 28th, 2012, 04:15 PM
Swaying Advice Coach
the calcium conundrum part 2
Please read http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...-CONTROVERSIAL
Ok. So obviously I have some doubts about the "magic bullet" status of calcium.
That having been said, people HAVE been eating a high calcium diet as part of their sway, and conceiving girls while doing it. Results have been decidedly inconsistent, as many of us have learned to our dismay, but clearly, a high calcium diet is not a magic bullet for blue, either. Studies have been done, we've all read them...just as calcium does not seem to guarantee pink, certainly it doesn't prevent girls from being conceived, either.
Just because calcium is not a magical pink guarantee, that doesn't necessarily mean that eating dairy/taking calcium as part of a pink sway diet is the worst idea in human history and that we should all run away screaming from a glass of milk.
According to the Trivers Willard hypothesis, mothers in deteriorating condition, with less access to quality sources of food, seem to have more daughters. Any time when we switch our diet dramatically, our body takes note of this fact. A sudden switch from eating a balanced diet with lots of different foods, to a very limited diet? How can our bodies ignore that? It may be that just by virtue of eating less variety of foods, (switching from our everyday diets to one centered around grains and dairy) we send a pink signal to our bodies.
Again, keeping Trivers-Willard in mind, it may not be what we're eating, but what we're NOT eating. Less potassium and sodium, in particular. The "You are what your mother eats" study http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.o...1643/1661.full found that moms who conceived boys DID take in more sodium and potassium. Maybe just eating less of these nutrients is enough to help some people conceive a girl, regardless of whether or not calcium/magnesium intake does anything at all.
Weight loss is another thing that your body might interpret as a signal that times are tough and a girl pregnancy might have a better chance of success. Many people find that they lose weight on the traditional TTC pink diet, because there's so few foods they can eat (and this was true before anyone ever heard of the Trivers Willard hypothesis).
Calcium has been found to help promote weight loss in several studies, regardless of caloric intake.
Calcium and Weight: Clinical Studies
Dairy is promoted in the media as a health food, but high calcium intake in and of itself, may not be terribly healthy for everyone or absorbed equally well by everyone. Oddly, osteoporosis is HIGHEST in countries that eat a lot of dairy foods, and this is a mystery that researchers have yet to solve. Around the world, most people take in less than half of the calcium that Western countries do, mostly from sources other than dairy foods. Yet their bones are actually stronger than ours are, even into old age.
It may be that overly high calcium intake actually causes us to absorb less calcium into our bones, so our body may be tricked into believing we are eating less calcium than we actually are. Or it could be that the calcium found in dairy products (and supplements) are in some form, or lacking some co-nutrient, that renders it less able to be used by our body. Net result, our body thinks it's getting less useable calcium even though we're eating more.
Also, people have allergies or sensitivities to the proteins in milk. Cow's milk has 5kinds of proteins KNOWN to cause allergic reactions. If you were fed cow's milk formula as a baby, you may be particularly sensitive to these proteins. This sensitivity can lead to autoimmune disorders - your body produces antibodies to these proteins for many years and can become cross-sensitized to naturally occuring proteins in your own body and end up attacking itself. A milk-protein sensitive indivudual who suddenly dramatically upped the amount of dairy in their diet, might have a physical reaction to dairy foods that might sway pink OR blue, even though it had NOTHING to do with calcium at all.
Others are unable to digest milk sugar, aka lactose. You may be slightly lactose intolerant for years without ever realizing it. Suddenly increasing the amount of dairy in your diet may trigger terrible stomach issues, or minor ones that you may not even really notice. The inability to digest the lactose means, that if you're getting the bulk of your calories from dairy products, you're not digesting at least SOME of your food. Less calories, less nutrients = more girls conceived.
It may be some other ingredient in dairy products that is swaying. Any connection with calcium may be sheer coincidence. Cows are treated with hormones, antibiotics, and various other medications. Not only that, but cows giving milk ARE full of female hormones because they're breastfeeding. It isn't beyond the realm of belief that some of these elements may sway in some way. Antibiotics are believed to sway blue and have been proven to get into the milk supply. Pesticides are believed to sway pink and are used extensively in agriculture.
Cheeses, yogurts, kefir, etc. are laden with good bacteria and in some cases, flavorings and preservatives, that may sway in some way, in addition to whatever was in the milk they were made from.
Also, dairy products are typically fortified with other vitamins, particularly Vitamin D. Vitamin D may raise testosterone. http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ter.html?cat=5 So even if calcium DID produce more girls, perhaps the addition of Vitamin D to dairy products undoes some of that by raising testosterone and swaying blue.
Research has demonstrated an intriguing connection between lowfat dairy intake and reduced fertility, and intake of full fat dairy and increased fertility. Reduced Fertility In Women Linked To Low Fat Dairy Food. Since pretty much everything that seems to lower fertility seems to sway pink, and everything that increases fertility seems to sway blue, it doesn't seem unreasonable to assume for now, that perhaps there's some interplay between fat and calcium intake. Maybe calcium without fat somehow interferes with fertility. Perhaps it's as simple as, a high calcium/low fat intake = more girls conceived, and high calcium/high fat intake = more boys conceived. Adding some full fat dairy to a blue sway may very well be a good idea.
We can't know until more research is done, if any or none of these things have any affect on gender ratio whatsoever. But, we do need to eat SOMETHING when we are swaying (heaven knows the pink sway is restrictive enough as it is!). Certainly lowfat dairy in moderation can be a good addition to a pink sway in addition to other sway aspects. But no one should rely on high calcium/magnesium/Vit. D intake alone, if you're trying to conceive a daughter.
Calcium needs to be removed from magic bullet status, but that doesn't mean that it cannot be a part of an excellent pink sway.
December 28th, 2012, 04:16 PM
Swaying Advice Coach
the calcium conundrum part 3 - deconstructing the FGD
Since I sure seem to spend an awful lot of time discussing this, I think I better just address it for once and for all and then I can happily post a link from now on!!
Honestly, I hate to spend time arguing against the FGD because I DO think it sways. It's basically a low-rent, less effective version of the Low-Everything/High-Everything diet with an (unnecessary) focus on mineral content and leaving out the stuff about testosterone and blood sugar. But since people keep asking about it, here is my take on the FGD.
The roots of the FGD are rotten to begin with.
A house built on shifting sands, is at its foundation, unstable. The fundamental idea behind the FGD is based on some studies done back in the 30's on this species of marine worms whose sex is not even determined by genetics, but by their environment. They HAVE no sex when they're first born and then they all turn into girls unless there's another girl around in the neighborhood, at which point one of them turns into a boy. Bonellia viridis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...22098183900254 An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
If you shoot some minerals into their tanks it makes them turn different genders. It makes NO sense at all to extrapolate that to mammals, let alone humans, because they don't reproduce in the same way as us. A couple other researchers did similar tests that the FGD book references, in a couple different species of worms, one of which is also hermaphroditic like the Bonellia is, and one that has boy and girl EGGS, not boy and girl sperm Karyotype and sex determination in Dinophilus gyrociliatus (Polychaeta: Dinophilidae) - Springer.
One other study was done in amphibians but environmental factors have been proven to affect gender ratio in amphibians and reptiles but not in humans. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...16699589800312 refutes the idea that environment controlling gender (as it has been proved to do in amphibians and reptiles) can be extrapolated to humans.
Furthermore, as the following outstanding, relatively easy-to-understand article explains, human sperm are attracted to eggs by means of chemical attractants that are different between individual mammals themselves, let alone between species as far removed as humans and marine worms are, that are found in the follicular fluid when the egg is released, in addition to thermotaxis, which is a change in temperature. Muscle contractions and currents of CM also help guide the sperm to the egg. And along the way, mammal sperm must capacitate to be able to fertilize the egg. http://www.weizmann.ac.il/Biological...2006(P110).pdf Another couple of links that talk about this are http://www.weizmann.ac.il/Biological...ch/pdf/P83.pdf and Sperm guidance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Animals that live in the sea simply release sperm and eggs in massive quantities and while they do have chemoattractants that attract sperm to eggs, the job of these chemoattractants is much more difficult. The ocean is a (quoting Eisenbach from the study above) "a turbulent, aqueous environment that usually contains eggs and sperm from various species." So the egg and the sperm have to seek out and find each other in a very hostile environment, and not only that, but they have to prevent attracting the sperm and eggs of other species. Their sperm do not capacitate like mammalian sperm do - they are ready to fertilize the egg upon release, and they remain able to fertilize the egg.
The mechanisms and environment between species that spawn externally and internally are so different that you simply cannot compare them. Stolkowski, author of the FGD book, may speak of "an internal ocean" in the female reproductive tract, but that is poetic nonsense and completely unsupported by any facts at all. I promise that if you take a drop of human CM and a drop of ocean water, they are so freaking different that a beginning biology student could tell them apart with one glance at them under a microscope. And the needs of eggs and sperm in the ocean are VASTLY different than in mammalian bodies.
Furthermore, animals that live in the ocean simply do not have the same motivation to alter gender ratio that mammals do. Not only are many ocean-dwelling animals able to switch genders and are capable of releasing BOTH sperm and eggs, in some cases even fertilizing their own eggs (!) but they send out billions of sperm/eggs during their lifetime, most of which go unfertilized. Of the millions of conceptions that do occur, many offspring die before maturity. Having equal numbers of male and female offspring is a good "bet" for some animals in that scenario, and for other creatures, like the Bonellia described in the links above, it makes more evolutionary "sense" to have way more female offspring and only a few males and so they've evolved mechanisms to ensure that happens. There is no logical reason to extrapolate that to humans who need 50-50 male and females!
In the case of mammals and even more so with humans, they may only have one measly offspring that lives to maturity. So they are highly motivated (evolutionarily speaking) to ensure that their offspring has the best chance to live to adulthood and reproduce because we only get one or two of them. THAT is the reason why the potential for variation in gender ratio amongst mammals has even evolved to begin with, to give our offspring the best chances to grow to adulthood and reproduce. Again, there is simply no comparison to be made between what strategy works best for Spongebob Squarepants (who as anyone with small children knows, can reproduce by budding ) and we humans. Our needs and environment, even the way that our sperm and eggs function are totally and completely different from these animals that Dr. Stolkowski based his entire theory upon.
So those studies mean precisely nothing of help to us. NONE of these animals even have the situation where there are male and female sperm determining gender internally, like humans do. The entire idea of the FGD is based on a faulty premise and everything that comes afterwards must therefore be suspect.
Now let's talk about cows.
Ok, so even if the FGD is based on nothing but a silly idea, didn't the people behind the FGD do a lot of experiments that supported the idea that calcium = girls??
Actually, NO, they didn't. What they did do was a couple of "retrospective surveys" of the diets fed to cows on several nearby farms and found that on farms where the cal/mag/pot were "properly" (whatever that means) balanced in the feed, as many males as females were born. On farms where there was more cal/mag in the feed and less potassium, more females were born, and where there was more potassium, more males were born.
Now hang on a minute here. The way the FGD is described it is like based on these highly scientific experiments, conjuring up images of white-coated researchers doling out carefully measured portions of food with all possible variables controlled for, but that simply isn't the case. It's even mentioned in the FGD book that it was "rather difficult" to find farmers who would alter the feed of their entire herd - I don't think they could find a farmer on the planet who would do such a thing.
In short, these cows were raised on different farms, by different farmers, were probably different breeds, and fed different diets and just because the feed was analyzed after the fact and happened to contain different mineral levels, what does that even mean to us?
Different feeds have different proportions of minerals to be sure but they also have different levels of other nutrients. Farmers don't open up a bag of "Purina Cow Chow - Now With Calcium" and feed it to their cows, while the farmer next door feeds precisely the same amount of "Moo Mix Plus Potassium". They feed their cows grass and hay and grain and silage in varying proportions, that they typically grow themselves on land that may have more or less of a certain mineral composition than another farmer's land does. And even though the diet of one cow may indeed differ in mineral content from that of another cow, they also differ in many other ways. Calories, protein, fat content - all vary between feeds and proportions of feeds in the cow's diet. Alfalfa and timothy may have different mineral content but they have different EVERYTHING content.
Not only that, but we don't know anything at all about the environments of these cows. One farmer may feed less than another farmer or at a different time of day, one breed may require more calories than another breed, one farmer may worm regularly while another farmer's cows were riddled with parasites and not getting maximum nutrition, one farmer may use antibiotics constantly while another doesn't. Most farmers only have one or two bulls they use for breeding so if one farmer's bull was particularly "set" to produce more of one gender than another, that could make a major difference in the results regardless of diet. NO variables were controlled for at all and therefore this info is really rather useless.
One final survey or study took place in which the researchers looked at Vit. D injections given to cows. It's really not clear WHY this Vit. D was injected into cows, whether it was at the behest of the researchers or for some other reason all together and the researchers got the info in retrospect. (in the FGD book it says the births were "obtained" which makes me think it was another retrospective survey.) Only 77 cows were injected with Vit. D and of these cows, 2/3 had females while 1/3 had males.
That is really not terribly different from what the standard gender ratio is to begin with and in that small a sample size, could easily be nothing more than a statistical variation. In the larger group that was NOT injected with Vit. D, the gender ratio had more males than females born but really not much different than 50-50. As the sample size increases, we should expect to see it be close to 50-50 just as a statistical fact, even if gender ratio has nothing to do with minerals at all, so that the ratio of the larger group was closer to 50-50 proves nothing about minerals at all.
Aside from the ridiculously small and unscientific sample size, there are too many variables at play to conclude anything from this. Why were those particular cows injected with Vit. D?? Was it because they were sickly or poor eaters? Were they on medication or was the farmer trying to bring them into heat out of season?? Did the farmers simply shake their heads at the crazy cow researchers and agree to inject some of their cows with Vit. D and then pick out their "worst" cows to inject??
Were they lower in weight? Younger? Older? Who knows, because we are totally relying on secondhand information compiled by people who were looking for evidence to support a particular hypothesis, that was gleaned from records kept by non-scientist people we don't even know, over 30 years ago, before the advent of computers, that may or may not even have been accurate.
Finally, even if the FGD science is 100% completely accurate and minerals are important to cow gender ratio, cows are NOT humans. They are herbivores. They have four stomachs. They come into heat usually only once a year, usually at the same time of year as all the other cows do. They live in a herd/harem rather than in monogamous pairs. You cannot compare an animal that eats grass, with a different digestive tract and different reproductive cycle entirely, with a human being that has evolved as an omnivore for millions of years and has monthly cycles and pairs off to mate, and draw any kinds of conclusions at all. Let's see some primate studies!!!
Another oft-cited "study" done by Stolkowski was in sows, but a subsequent experiment by other researchers could not repeat his findings. [Influence of mineral diet of the sow on the... [Reprod Nutr Dev. 1982] - PubMed - NCBI
There are some intriguing studies in rats that are discussed in the thread below.
Until someone can point out some sort of evolutionary advantage as to why sodium/calcium intake would make any difference in gender ratio, and/or explain why countries with the highest dairy intake have more boys and why the nations of the world where most people are lactose intolerant have more girls and why people of African descent have the most girls of all even though they are much more likely to be lactose intolerant and have a genetic predisposition that makes them actually retain higher levels of sodium in their bodies than those of European heritage (please read http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...-FGD-for-a-boy.), I'm going to need some more substantial evidence to go on.
Testosterone, blood glucose - those things make SENSE so I can let go that I don't have 50 studies to back them up (even though more are being done every day that are virtually all better done and from more reliable sources than anything that supports the FGD.) Calcium swaying pink does not make intuitive sense to me, it doesn't mesh with the real world, and so I want real evidence from an unbiased source and not people who are making money off of this theory (the Dutch study people). The only unbiased study (the Oxford study) actually found that calcium = more boys. That doesn't mean it isn't true and doesn't work, just that we can't treat it like an unquestioned given that cal/mag = girls.
If you like the FGD and you believe in it, then follow it by all means. Maybe it will work for you. But I just cannot support the following scenarios because I don't think people will get their DG that way and I REALLY REALLY want everyone to get their DG!!!
1)Pink swayers - Eating your normal diet and just taking cal-mag-Vit. D supps WILL NOT WORK. I saw several people do exactly this on IG - heck, I kinda did it myself - and NONE of them ever got a baby girl from it. Even when they "cut back" on salt they had opposites. (to my mind, this is further proof that it is the DIETS that are swaying and NOT the minerals, because when the diet is removed from the equation, the minerals do not seem to sway in any reliable way. If the minerals are swaying, they should sway at least SOMEWHAT for people even if they're not following the diet.)
2) Pink swayers - Drinking unlimited amounts of milk and eating unlimited amounts of "approved" foods on the FGD is another major no-no. People are drinking GALLONS of milk and eating tahini/yogurt by the barrel and including chicken/fish/eggs, and they are getting opposites. Both the FGD and IG diets limit dairy/produce/meats to what the alloted minerals are for that day. If you want to do the FGD or IG diets, REALLY do them and stick to the guidelines for minerals. You will find that it's not a lot of food and it actually resembles the Low-Everything diet pretty closely, even more restrictive in some ways. If you toss in skipping breakfast and lose a few pounds, even better.
3)Blue swayers - Eating your normal diet and just trying to eat more salt doesn't cut the mustard for blue. Please also increase calories, protein, fat, and nutrients across the board, do not skip breakfast, add some muscle mass, and keep your blood sugar high. Eat protein and carbs at every meal and don't rely on salt alone to sway. Not only that, but an overly high intake of salt over the course of months may even be bad for your health and fertility and might make you more girl friendly than you would have been even had you done nothing at all to sway. One rat study found that high sodium intake caused rats to conceive more GIRLS, not boys. http://e-jurnal.perpustakaan.ipb.ac....es/maryati.pdf
4)Blue swayers - Eliminating calcium completely, esp. over the course of several months is not a good idea. Cutting out an entire class of foods and one of the most important nutrients in your body, is not going to send a message to your body that times are good, period. Furthermore, eating full-fat dairy has been proven to enhance fertility and everything that raises fertility sways blue. (One rat study found that potassium plus calcium caused nearly as many males to be conceived as high potassium intake alone and the link is somewhere on this thread.)
Blue swayers are lucky in that even if you eliminate dietary calcium all together, your body still has an ample supply in your bones. On the FGD, when you drastically reduce calcium, your body starts stealing it from your bones and keeps a perfectly adequate level of calcium in your blood (otherwise you would DIE from the FGD), so it is extremely unlikely that the FGD even sways by altering the levels of calcium in your blood. You have some time, perhaps months, before you really do start to do harm to yourself and your fertility. But over time, it is going to take a toll on you, both in terms of fertility and in terms of your long term health and the longer it takes you to get pg, you may end up ruining your sway by running low on critical nutrients. If you choose to do the FGD, please don't tinker around with TBM, timing, etc and just hurry up and get pregnant as quickly as you can.