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April 18th, 2018, 08:23 AM
#1
Dream Vet
Heat on sperm and some personal ranting
Thought I would post this as well as update since some of you had asked to be kept up to date on my story since not all of you can access the HT forums.
Cliffnotes: DH was recommended to see a urologist after our first IVF cycle showed a sperm problem. He also did a sperm fragmentation test. We found abnormal results on the latter, and DH came home saying they found a varicocele but "wanted to wait for the sperm results." They got those, immediately recommend an ultrasound.
Well yesterday we met with the doctor following the ultrasound. DH does not have a varicocele. The urologist actually is a huge proponent of fixing varicoceles for sperm health, which is fortunate since it's still controversial to fix.
But it just turns out that DH apparently misunderstood his first appointment and does not have a varicocele. However, the urologist said, "I already told your husband I think it's the high heat he works around." DH is an engineer who works at extreme cold and extreme hot temperatures occasionally to semi-frequently. Urologist also said he believes it's a full 6 months for sperm health to return to normal, much more than the 72 day life cycle. Which would put us just now at maybe 7-8 months post that awful fever DH had back in August.
I also didn't realize exactly how hot DH worked at occasionally. He had told me it was 100F. The urologist said that DH had told him 65C... or 130-140F. And DH was doing it pretty regularly last summer and fall. As recently as November/December.
I was flabbergasted. "The sperm count? The oxidative stress?" The urologist just said, "I really think it's the heat. We have a lot of evidence backing up how much damage heat can do to sperm. It's WHY varicoceles are bad, because of the heat they cause."
We were referred on to an even more specialized urologist because trying to do anymore than we have (icing, supplements, lifestyle changes) is beyond his paygrade, he said. We will probably do another semen analysis, but the next appointment for this new urologist isn't until May 29.
DH sort of had a melt down and said he is done trying to do things to correct his sperm, would rather return to biking/running, is just not as invested in this as I am. Said, "We should look back at YOU for these losses" in such a way that even the urologist looked pretty appalled. And as we know -- I've been cleaned out and prodded and tested to oblivion. Two IVF cycles showed excellent embryos until Day 3/4, when sperm DNA takes over, and our REs and embryologists keep insisting it's either "bad luck" or a sperm issue that "we're not equipped to compensate for yet." DH having abnormal sperm markers associated with loss was about all we have to go on... so I guess we can only hope that the supplements, icing and lifestyle choices have been enough while his sperm's been replenishing since we're outside of the 6 month window.
But I'm feeling more and more like this really might be a fool's errand with my husband. It would be different if he was also supportive and understanding. But this is a man who was against IVF because "at least D&Cs are covered by insurance." And who has told me he can't stand being around me because of how sad I am all the time. He's literally asked if I could just fake smile around him because he's so miserable when I am sad. I don't cry or mope around the house. I've just lost my spirit along with all of these babies -- I still work, I cook, I clean, we have sex. I just don't have my spirit anymore. And he'd rather I hide my grief than help me cope with it.
He doesn't even refer to them as "our losses" -- he says they are my losses.
I'm at a loss. But thought I would update for those who have missed my sharing on FB and in the HT forums here. And to maybe give a word of warning to the pink swayers on how bad heat can really be for sperm
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April 18th, 2018, 09:18 AM
#2
Moderator
I'm so, so, sorry your DH is acting this way. After everything you've been through, he should be supportive of you. It sounds like he's really detached himself from all of this and doesn't understand why you feel the way that you do. It's not fair for him to treat this like it's your problem and yours alone. He should know you guys are a team as a husband and wife, not completely separate individuals that go through their own shit alone. He may have made himself emotionally unavailable because he's hurting too and just won't admit it. Maybe it's too upsetting for him to think it's his sperm that's the problem. He needs to be there for you though, no matter what.
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'17 (LE sway opposite)
Dreaming of pink through HT or adoption
FET January 2021: 1 HBAA XX - BFN
FET #2 August 2022: 1 HBAA XX - BFP!
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April 18th, 2018, 11:16 AM
#3
Dream Vet
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April 18th, 2018, 06:12 PM
#4
Last edited by SoFullofHope; April 25th, 2018 at 07:56 AM.
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April 18th, 2018, 06:18 PM
#5
Swaying Advice Coach
can someone bump this for me??
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April 19th, 2018, 05:15 AM
#6
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April 19th, 2018, 11:08 AM
#7
This is tough. I think in a lot of cases GD is one-sided or maybe like 80% one partner and 20% the other. I know that's the case in our marriage. I don't think, if we hadn't had a dd who died AND we didn't have the insurance coverage, I would have been able to talk DH into going HT. After the first round, I wasn't sure I could talk him into a second, and after this second I really had my doubts he would have gone for a third. (I think he would have actually.) When I called to tell him our only embryo is a normal XX, he was like "ok great. Which kid are you picking up today?" [I totally called him out on it but still...] He is cool with having another kid and also totally cool to be done. I got him to take olive leaf extract 2x, as in 2 days. (He wasn't purposely not taking it but only when I reminded him and brought it to him. I had too many of my own meds to manage.)
Anyway, sorry I mostly have commiseration more than advice.
(2009)
(2011- IUI and femara)
(2012),
(8/2015) (sway opposite)
2019
HT 2018- Feb - 12 retrieved- 0 embies made it to PGS testing
April- 10 retrieved- 1 5AB embryo made it to testing- normal XX!!!! July FET- BFP!!! DD born 2019
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April 29th, 2018, 11:52 AM
#8
Swaying Advice Coach
Hey, thanks for your patience. I couldn't find this post anywhere so I had to go hunt it down.
I really feel, sometimes, that this process brings out the worst in guys. It just reveals that at the end of it all, this matters more to us than them, and that's ok, I guess, but it's not easy on us at all.
I have found again and again that whenever I really need my husband, not only is he not there for me at all, but he quickly becomes the biggest problem I have. With the gender disappointment, miscarriage, and some medical problems I'm dealing with(I'm comparing these in my mind to IVF rounds, all the poking and prodding and appointments and scans and money spent) it's been really hard to carry on with marriage knowing that my role here is apparently to entertain my husband no matter what I feel like, and never harsh his buzz and the stuff that I am struggling with is my stuff to struggle with on my own while also being super happy and charming to the whole outside world when I want to die inside (and this seems very much like what you're dealing with, too).
It is very isolating, that the person who is not only supposed to be your best friend and partner in all this, is kind of revealed to be mostly in it for themselves, if that makes sense, and we are bascially means to an end to them to be used for their own happiness, and then turned off when not making them happy, as if we are an app on a phone or something. It's almost like a cosmic joke, being sold this bill of goods about a husband as protector, friend, lover (ugh I hate that word, can't come up with another off the top of my head tho) but to end up in a position where none of those things really seem true and yet we're supposed to act like everything is ok and do all the stuff that we are supposed to do as wives when we aren't getting anything back in return.
So all this is to say, I have no advice, but you're not alone. I wish I did.
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August 13th, 2018, 10:46 AM
#9
Dream Vet
I'm sorry atomic, I never saw your response and really appreciate it and what all of you had to say. I hope things have improved for you
I dug this up because I feel like I never should have ignored this issue. As many of you know, I was pregnant as I wrote this and didn't know it yet -- and miraculously it's seemed to stick. Tomorrow is my anatomy scan and I have felt calm about my decision to not find out gender: this is my last possible baby in my 20s, the tail end of the age gap I wanted for DD and any sibling, SHE is obsessed with babies and I know is desperate for a playmate, etc. I have been more mentally stable than i ever expected with this pregnancy despite all the anxiety over loss AND GD I would have expected; even my therapist has been pleasantly surprised. No mood swings, no anger, no fights with DH (haha supporting the OWT of boy right? I wish).
DH has become very emotionally and verbally abusive over the last week. He is very stressed about work and his family, and I've tried so hard to be patient and support him. But he has lashed out so severely (and so much like he has over time) that I am facing the fact that I am alone and might as well be alone. The issues here and that were in this original post have never gone away, and 2 couples counselors and him seeing an individual therapist all resulted in him eventually not going anymore whenever they started saying things he didn't want to hear... lots of signs I should have been paying more attention to, right?
But now what? All I could think about was that I can't bring another girl into this world, especially if I am alone and all i wanted was a boy. I was having this baby for DD; not terminating because DH would never forgive me. But what have I been putting myself through here.
There is so, so much more to this. I am just so exhausted by life and all its punches.
Last edited by Throwaway_panther; August 13th, 2018 at 11:10 AM.
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August 13th, 2018, 11:24 AM
#10
Moderator
Gosh I'm so sorry things haven't improved. It's sad to hear when times get tough, people push their loved ones away instead of coming together. He's obviously in massive denial and doesn't want to face the truth, no matter how painful. That really freaking sucks TP, I'm so sorry. I so wish it could get better for you and for your DH. I've been hoping so much that this is your boy.
'12
'14
'15
'15
'16
🌈
'17 (LE sway opposite)
Dreaming of pink through HT or adoption
FET January 2021: 1 HBAA XX - BFN
FET #2 August 2022: 1 HBAA XX - BFP!
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It’s been awhile but I keep meaning to come back and say we swayed girl in 2022 and had a little girl in early 2023! First girl born in 110+ years on my husband’s side.[emoji179]
2022 Pink Sway Results!