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  1. #1
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    How many attempts should I do and WHEN?? For pink and blue.

    UPDATE 12-9-17 - in the last essay in this series of essays (just scroll down!) is the how to on regular release + one attempt, every 4 days, every 4 days + one attempt, and SMEP!!! We've had tons of questions on those so hopefully this will help! These essays are really difficult to write, please let me know in the comments if anything is less than clear or what questions you have!!

    One of the most common questions on the site is about how many attempts to do, why, and how. Letís take a closer look and see if we can remove some of the stress and confusion from this topic.

    Since I originally wrote this essay we have learned that for reasons we can only guess at, number of attempts actually DOES seem to sway!! One attempt seems to sway strongly pink, 3 attempts in the fertile window seems to sway strongly blue.

    How many attempts should I do?
    It depends! (you knew I was going to say that, didnít you??) More attempts in the fertile window means greater odds of pregnancy, higher sperm numbers may mean more sons conceived, higher pH in the vagina (semen will help raise vaginal pH) may also favor male conceptions, but at the same time, a lot of ineffective releases prior to the fertile window opening (O-3 through O Day, see more below) may lower sperm numbers overall and lead to more daughters conceived. It is a balancing act for each couple to find the right amount of BD to conceive while still swaying.

    Why would number of attempts sway?
    We donít know, quite honestly (you probably knew I was going to say that, too!). It may be that there is some primitive communication between sperm that sways in some fashion (perhaps Y sperm are better able to band together to gain some advantage in penetrating the egg and/or CM while X are better at going it alone or with only a few more sperm to assist), more sperm may signal Y sperm to capacitate more quickly than X or vice versa, more or a higher number of dead sperm, may cause changes in CM consistency that allow Y sperm to make it thru more easily than X (or vice versa), or it may be that the very tiny difference in size between X and Y sperm enables the slightly larger X sperm to penetrate the egg with less assistance while the smaller Y sperm may need more assistance.

    You see, it takes the work of more than one sperm cell to penetrate an egg shell Ė if the egg shell is sufficiently weakened, a slightly smaller-headed sperm (Y) may have a momentary advantage over a larger-headed X sperm due to surface tension (for the same reason a sharpened pencil can be poked thru a piece of paper more easily than an unsharpened pencil.) Fewer sperm at the egg may confer a momentary benefit to a larger-headed X sperm because due to their larger size, they may be better able to push their way into the eggshell prior to it being totally weakened (the sharpened tip of a pencil is much weaker than the blunt tip of an unsharpened one). Or, it may be some combination of all of these things. Or something totally different all together.

    But these are ďproximate mechanismsĒ that explain how something might work. They donít really answer the underlying question - the ultimate mechanism - the question of WHY would the number of sperm on hand sway to begin with?

    I have wracked my brain to come up with an ultimate mechanism as to why sperm numbers could confer any evolutionary benefit to one gender over another, and I think I have a couple of decent possibilities. Please understand that this is sheer speculation on my part based on a half-dozen studies and some evolutionary biology books I have read, is discussing general trends and possibilities with plenty of exceptions, and is not meant to be in any way offensive to anyone. I debated on leaving this section out all together because I do not want to offend anyone, but I think one of the reasons why people like this site is because we do try to figure out the deeper reasons behind gender swaying rather than just going off blind faith that these tactics actually work for SOME reason. It also demonstrates how both very frequent and very infrequent intercourse might sway for both DH and DW, which I know is a sticking point for some people.

    1)Dads Vs. Cads theory: When a guy is having a LOT of sex or NO sex, it sends the same signal to his body Ė he may not be in regular possession of a woman. This is often true in primates and also in many other mammals and some human cultures as well. Either heís servicing a lot of women/one woman several times in a row over the span of a few days/weeks, possibly in the short term in a ďhit and runĒ fashion, and may not be around in the future to provide protection and food to the family. Or, he got a one-time opportunity at a woman that he does not normally have access too, and again, may not be around in the future to provide protection and food to the family.

    Female offspring tend to have better rates of survival than male offspring do (in nature, in primates) even when there is not a biological father around. This is firstly because they need fewer calories and less protein to survive/reproduce and their dietary needs can be better met thru gathering, which is typically a female endeavor, but also because when a new male takes over the troop/tribe/clan, he often kills all the male offspring while allowing the females to survive.
    In a committed, long term relationship on the other hand, intercourse tends to occur regularly but not every day. Married couples under 30 report having intercourse 2 times a week on average; by 50-59 this rate falls to an average of once a week. Those between 30-50 fall somewhere between the two. Intercourse twice a week or so, averages out to be pretty close to the every 2-4 days that equates to max. sperm numbers and health and sways blue.

    We have human studies that indicate more sons are born to people in stable, long term relationships and even one that indicated that families with more sons were less likely to divorce than those of all daughters. That having been said, many of the families I know with all daughters are in very loving and stable relationships and my now-husband and I were kinda rocky and not very committed when we conceived our first son, so I stress again that there are PLENTY of exceptions and this is not meant to be applicable to everyone or offensive to anyone.

    2)Single Moms Need Daughters theory: When a woman is having little/no sex, it may send a signal to her body that there is not a man around regularly and as a result, there may be no protector/provider and a girl offspring would have a better chance of survival for the same reasons mentioned above. We have one study that indicates that this is true (single moms do have more daughters than the population as a whole) and actually Charles Darwin himself studied the issue in his book The Descent of Man and came to the same conclusion .

    Women who are in short term, whirlwind relationships that may not be fully committed tend to have more sex in the short term than committed couples do, and so frequent intercourse may also signal the body that a girl offspring conceived during the haze of a fledgling relationship would have a better shot at survival, because the male has not proved himself to be a good protector/provider at that point. Our bodies may ďknowĒ on some subconscious level, that intercourse every 2-4 days may mean that a father is around to provide meat and protection to our sons.

    Additionally, women may be able to sense and respond to the hormones that a partner provides and may even become more fertile in the presence of a male to whom she is not genetically related. Some research indicates that in a home with a stepfather, young girls even enter puberty at younger ages due to these hormonal signals. Things that increase fertility tend to sway blue.

    Daughters themselves ~may~ be more of a helpmate to single mothers than sons are. In some primates and many species of birds (human mating patterns closely resemble that of many birds), teenage and adult daughters remain at home helping their mothers to rear siblings, while sons oftentimes are driven off. Primate daughters rear their offspring alongside their motherís, while dutiful bird daughters actually forgo starting their own families to assist their mothers!!! This assistance from daughters may help to keep her mother and her siblings alive, so the timely birth of a daughter may help to ensure that the entire genetic line has optimal chances of survival.
    Last edited by atomic sagebrush; December 12th, 2017 at 10:29 AM.
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  3. #2
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    Enough speculation!! Cut to the chase! Whatís the best number and timing of attempts for blue?

    For blue swayers, the answer to this question is very simple. Have your husband release every 2-4 days starting at AF, then do several attempts in your 5 day fertile window (O-3, O-2, O-1, O, O+1 Ė virtually all pregnancies occur from intercourse on these days.) Your best odds of conception come in the three day microwindow (O-2, O-1, O Ė majority of pregnancies occur from intercourse these three days, O-2 and O-1 more so than O Day. Most blue swayers will want to avoide O+1 because very few conceptions occur that day, and also to eliminate risk of O+12 (even though it doesn't even work!).

    UPDATE: Please note, while O+1 is actually ZERO chance of conception, it is possible to get your ovulation day off by a bit so I do still encourage attempts even after you have ovulated. Some people, when they aren't sure if they have ovulated, may want to have attempts every other day (EOD) for a few days to a week after they think they have ovulated. When in doubt, keep doing EOD.

    UPDATE - I strongly recommend even BD UNPROTECTED because in the years since I wrote this essay, we have seen a good study that showed unprotected intercourse with exposure to hubby's semen in your non-fertile phase boosts fertility and I believe it to sway blue. This is also what many, many of us moms of boys do naturally - have regular unprotected sex when we aren't fertile, and use protection or pull out when we are. I got 3 of 4 boys this way! We don't truly know how the number of attempts game even works and it may be via sperm communication, so it is possible that even attempts out of the fertile window may still be communicating to sperm in the fertile window in a kind of sperm "Telephone" game - O-5 batch "talks" to O-3 batch which "talks" to O-1 and O Day batch and then Y sperm wake up and X sperm stay dormant because of this!

    Anyway, as a result, you may want to focus primarily on these three days Ė three attempts, one on each day of the microwindow (O-2 through O Day), is a great option (you can even skip the O Day attempt if you like because BD on O Day offers rather low odds of conception). On the other hand, since BD every other day may allow sperm numbers to increase inside your husbandís body before ejaculation, you may wish to alternate days instead if you feel more comfortable with that Ė such as, an attempt on O-3, 2 attempts on O-1, one on O day; or a 2 attempts on O-2 and then 2 attempts on O Day. There is no right or wrong way to do it.

    UPDATE: What MOST blue swayers have done over the past couple years is a sort of compromise between the suggested attempts above and Shettles timing. They are having 3 attempts, one the night of first positive OPK, again the next morning (O Day), and then again the following night (O Day). This is generally what I've been recommending but the paragraph above does contain several alternate ways to accomplish our goal of 3 attempts in the fertile microwindow. Since many people are having trouble doing that morning attempt in particular, if you feel better about going O-2, O-1, O Day, by all means!

    Limiting yourself to a single attempt at O for blue is (apologies Shettles fans) a terrible idea that may even sway PINK by limiting numbers of sperm and sending a signal to your and your husbandís bodies that a girl may have a better chance at survival. Timing doesnít sway! The TROUBLE with timing! If at all possible, YOU need to be having frequent orgasms and if you are having them WITH your husband during intercourse, that may help.

    Blue swayers, do not worry about having 2-5 releases in a short time because you have heard that frequent BD sways pink - as long as you're in the fertile window, that is, and especially in that microwindow O-2 through O Day. First of all, itís much more likely that frequent release for many days in a row followed by a limited number of attempts, sways pink, not BD 2-5 times in the fertile window. And DTD even 5 days in a row is NOT frequent BD anyway. Frequent release/BD has to be 7-10 consecutive days OR 2-3 releases for a few days before BEGINNING attempts (you may wish to read the directions for pink swayers so you know what NOT to do). There is a big difference between frequent release where a personís DH releases 7-10 consecutive days in a row before doing only one attempt inside, and having 3-5 attempts INSIDE (or even more) after having had DH release every 2-4 days to maximize sperm numbers for many days before beginning attempts. In the first case you start off with lower sperm numbers and in the other case, you maximize numbers and then add to it! I have a more thorough explanation in this thread, not the first post but a few down the page. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gen...nk-lately.html

    People who donít really understand the basic principle of why FR sways (lowering sperm numbers) worry that by having so many attempts, they somehow give X sperm the upper hand. But this simply isnít true, because itís not about altering the numbers of X vs. Y (impossible!), itís about lowering vs. maximizing sperm numbers. Both X and Y sperm are produced and released in equal proportions no matter how many attempts you do, so by doing more attempts, blue swayers, youíre adding more and more sperm to the amount being stored in your reproductive tract.

    Not only that, but when you are swaying blue, you are doing everything in your power to up sperm survivability. Your husband is taking supps and releasing every 2-4 days to maximize sperm production, and you are taking supps, dieting, and altering your lifestyle to improve CM and up sperm survival rates. Not only are you starting off with more and healthier sperm coming from your DH to begin with, youíre then adding sperm by doing more than one attempt, and then youíre keeping the most sperm alive that you possibly can! Doing more than one attempt, in your fertile window (esp. the microwindow) under those circumstances WILL sway blue by upping numbers of sperm.

    The one thing you do need to beware, blue swayers, is wasting a lot of effort on ineffective releases. Itís not a good idea to assume, well, if more sperm = more boys, we should start our BD at CD 1 and have sex every day thru ovulation. That may actually tend to sway pink because your earliest attempts cannot achieve pregnancy and all those sperm will simply die because your reproductive tract is hostile early in your cycle. Your husbandís sperm count will go down after several days of release, and then when your fertile window opens, itís likely that he will no longer be producing as much sperm as he was at the beginning of the month, so even if you do more attempts to add more sperm, youíll be adding fewer sperm than if he had released every 2-4 days before your attempts. Itís best to have your husband release every 2-4 days from CD1 thru when you want to begin your attempts to maximize sperm production, then limit your unprotected attempts to the fertile window.
    Again, please read this thread (a few posts down I have a good explanation) https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gen...nk-lately.html

    Shocking advice Ė during the time when you are having your husband release 2-4 days, not only is it a great idea to have intercourse WITH him and have an orgasm, you may want to assist him either vaginally without a condom (as long as youíre not fertile right then) or orally (and swallow if you can!!) Some data has indicated that women are sensitive to chemical components in male semen and may even possibly be able to differentiate between semen of different partners Ė in other words, your body may be able to tell you are having regular intercourse with a consistent monogamous partner. This may help to send the signal to your body that a father figure, protector, and provider is around to guarantee survival of male offspring.

    UPDATE - I now really really do recommend unprotected vaginal sex when outside of the fertile window even for people who are big believers in timing. I truly think it sways and at least one good study has shown it increases fertility, which should sway blue!!!!

    UPDATE - Two more ways to possibly get boys!

    Neither of these methods are timing-compatible. But timing does not work anyway!

    Every Other Day Method (EOD) - While many of our blue sway hubbies have a lower sex drive, an important minority of couples with all girls are actually having daily intercourse. The hubby has a sky high sex drive and they generally have sex at least once a day if not more. This may lower sperm numbers and inadvertently sway pink despite having several attempts in the fertile window. Yet the husbands really, really REALLY do not want to have sex only every 2-4 days! And remember the cardinal rule of swaying - if Daddy ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!

    So, for those couples I suggest having sex every other day during the times of the month you are not fertile and then still hitting it with the 3-5 attempts in the fertile window, especially the microwindow of O-2 thru O Day. It's not going to make quite as many sperm as releasing every 2-4 days will, but it will give him a day to recover in between batches and in a man with a high sex drive anyway, that is probably all these guys need!

    I do want to stress that this is not a method for any man who does NOT already have sex every day. Men with lower sex drives need to select a different method because they will literally not be able to perform that much (don't worry, you can still get boys anyway!) that entails less frequent intercourse. The pitfall that occurs is that men exhaust themselves on attempts too soon and then you're in the fertile window with only one attempt and he can't go again!! We don't want this so please don't get overly ambitious and aim at a goal that you can't reach as a couple!

    And Sperm Meets Egg Plan or SMEP: SMEP is just an all around good way to get pregnant - so good in fact that it sways blue. It's described here: Sperm Meets Egg Plan It's really very much like the EOD Method but you don't start it as early and you don't go as long after you have ovulated. So if your hubby has a good sex drive, but maybe just not ~quite~ into the stratosphere, and/or you personally are just needing a break for at least part of the month LOL, give SMEP a whirl. Please note, you can find people who did SMEP and got girls, but this DOES NOT MEAN that SMEP sways pink. By all known theories of swaying (other than Shettles, which is totally debunked) SMEP sways blue because it ends up being more sperm to greet the egg, which is believed to sway strongly blue. Most people who do SMEP are dealing with serious fertility challenges all of which sway pink, so you can't just look at one person or two who got girls using SMEP and declare it's a pink tactic - it is not, not at all, and it is an outstanding way to get boys!
    Last edited by atomic sagebrush; December 12th, 2017 at 10:49 AM.
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  5. #3
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    So what is the best number and timing of attempts for pink?

    Pink swayers, things are a little more complicated for you. What works for one couple to lower sperm count enough to sway pink, in another couple will make it impossible to conceive. Deciding how many attempts to do can be like an episode of the Price is Right Ė you are trying to ensure you have enough sperm to conceive, without going over!! (you may want to read the blue section as well so you know what NOT to do.)

    UPDATE: We now know without a doubt that it is best for pink to do ONE and only ONE attempt. You should drop ALL OTHER sway tactics (other than diet, exercise, and Clomid or Femara) before you add attempts. Drop timing, jellies, douches, antihistamines, frequency patterns, shallow release, hot baths, even pH supps before adding attempts.

    In order to decide how many attempts to do, first ask yourself these questions.

    How big a hurry am I in to get pregnant? If you have a long time to try, you may wish to start off doing fewer attempts or even just one. Obviously, if you have only three months to conceive due to work or other issues, you will want to have more attempts to maximize odds of pregnancy. UPDATE: while one attempt is best, we do have safer ways to add attempts that will not kill your sway, I'll talk more about these below.

    What is my age and my husbandís age? If you are older, you need to get pregnant as quickly as you can because your reproductive window Ė meaning, the months and years left to you to conceive before menopause, not the days of the month you are most likely to conceive in - is closing rapidly. It may even take you longer to get pregnant doing nothing at all to sway because you may have to await a healthy egg if your body is not producing one every month. Older womenís eggs may not live as long, and their shells may be harder for sperm to penetrate. If your husband is older, his sperm count may be lower, his sperm may be less healthy, slower swimming, and may not live as long. Older couples may NEED more than one attempt to conceive at all.

    Someone asked me to pin down "older" a little tighter here. Older means anyone over 35, really, BUT it's a sliding scale...obviously a 36 year old will have much more time left in her reproductive window than a 38 year old who will have much more time left in her reproductive window than a 40 year old. Most 35 year olds really do not need to be in a superhuge hurry to conceive, and can safely take a few months to try to play around with sway tactics that may cut odds of conception. But a 42 year old needs to be in it to win it right from the start and cannot, indeed SHOULD not, waste any time at all chasing sway tactics that do not work and really cut odds of conception. The older you are, the more focus you need to place on conceiving because if you don't get pregnant you have no chance of a baby girl.

    What else am I doing to sway? Unlike blue swayers, pink swayers are doing myriad things that lower sperm numbers and reduce sperm quality such as licorice root, hot baths, tighty whiteys, jump and dump, and abstinence/FR/CFR; reduce sperm survivability in the female reproductive tract such as jellies, antihistamines, douching, lime tampon, diet/supps, at home HT methods like EGS and TBM; and sometimes even lower odds that sperm will even meet the egg to begin with, such as timing methods like cutoff and O+12. You may need to do more than one attempt in your fertile window to allow the sperm a fighting chance. UPDATE: Please note that all the above things (except diet, exercise, and Clomid/Femara) have been shown to be ineffective and ALL should be dropped before adding attempts! One attempt is GOLD! Drop all this stuff before adding attempts!

    Note Ė you may have read online fantastic tales about people who allegedly did every sway tactic under the sun 110% and claim to have gotten pregnant very easily despite this. Please take these stories with a grain of salt. This is the Internet and we have no way of knowing how truthful these reports are, not to mention that every couple is different and one personís body may be so good at producing sperm/CM that they are able to conceive (and conceive opposites) despite doing a lot of other things to sway. Other people may have to forgo almost all sway tactics to conceive. This may be true for you even if you have conceived other children before very easily.

    If you are on Clomid or Femara, you must do whatever it takes to get pregnant as quickly as possible, including doing more than one attempt in your fertile window, because itís not healthy to stay on Clomid or Femara in the long term.

    How much weight do I have to lose and how easy is it for me to stick to diet? - If you have a lot of weight to lose you may want to start off doing a very strict sway with one attempt and be prepared to get BFN at first. Others have next to no weight to lose and need to get pregnant immediately because they cannot be on diet more than a few weeks, so should start off doing more attempts. Some people enjoy the LE Diet and are happy on it for months, while for others, it chafes at every meal and the risk of cheating skyrockets with every day that passes. If you are doing IGD or FGD, you can only stay on those diets for 6 months tops before having to take a month off anyway. You should consider all these things when deciding how many attempts you choose to do.

    How helpful is my DH? If your DH is not supportive of swaying and you are fearful that at any second, heíll pull the plug on the entire letís-make-a-baby adventure and drag you to a therapist, it may behoove you to do whatever it takes to keep him happy. If that means doing a lot of attempts in all the wrong patterns, DO THEM. Pick your battles Ė if you canít get pg, you have no shot at your DG and you canít get pg alone. There has been more than one occasion where the husband simply had enough with swaying and said, ďNo more.Ē

    At the same time, if your husband is super helpful and taking his licorice root, wearing tighty whiteys, taking hot baths, riding a bike, abstain or FR, and so on, you may NEED to do more than one attempt to get pg because his sperm numbers will be so much lower than they were to begin with. Anyone whose husband has low sperm count to begin with, also may need to do more than one attempt to improve odds of pg. But hey, maybe you still want to give it a whirl and see what happens if you have the time to spare.

    How devastating will it be for me to get a BFN? Most swayers start off thinking that it will be ok to get BFN. Some even make claims that they are willing to go from now until menopause getting BFN rather than compromise on their sway. But as the months begin to go by, it really takes a toll to see those BFN pile up. You can have the most beautiful sway on the planet and if you do not get pregnant, it is all for nothing Ė you may as well save your effort and take a birth control pill. People get opposites even from ďperfectĒ sways all the time unfortunately, and it may be a good idea to get pg sooner, rather than later, because there are no guarantees. It would suck to take two years to conceive and still get an opposite (and yes, this actually did happen to several people.)

    Sharing my perspective, I was in a big hurry to do my attempt when swaying for DS 4 due to my age, and got pg very quickly while many others, even other older moms, who were swaying at the same time as I was, went for all ď7 sway factorsĒ and took much longer on average to conceive than I did (some never did conceive, unfortunately). I heard thru the grapevine that some thought I deserved what I got because I ďcompromisedĒ my sway by being in too big a hurry to get pregnant, but in the end I had time to try again and did get my girl (and a truly spectacular little DS 4 as well!)

    If I had wasted even a little more time swaying with DS 4, getting pg with DD would not have happened for me. This is especially true for those moms who are in their mid to late 30ís Ė swaying cannot guarantee 100% success no matter how thorough a sway you do, and so it may be wiser to compromise in favor of conception, rather than squandering months/years trying to have a ďperfectĒsway, since even ďperfectĒ sways may produce opposites. Youíll ensure youíll still have time to try again (even if you donít think you will, at least the option will be there).

    This is actually something to consider seriously even in your early 30ís. I know itís hard to believe at 34 that you donít have a lot of time left, but it really is true. 2 years of swaying plus 2 years pg with an opposite and recovery from childbirth can easily put you at 38 years old in the blink of an eye. Please donít waste precious time from your fertile window, chasing after sway tactics that may not even sway much if at all! One attempt works. Timing, frequency, pH do not, plus all those things make it very difficult to conceive. I beg ya, do the things that work, let go of the things that don't. Our results have proven definitively that it is entirely possible to get pregnant within 3 months average and STILL have 70% and better success rates!!
    Last edited by atomic sagebrush; December 12th, 2017 at 10:57 AM.
    !!! Questions?? Check out the NEW and improved Complete Index !!!

    Private Messages are NEVER the best way to get in contact with me quickly. You will always hear from me in the forums much faster.

    PLEASE post swaying questions in the forums ONLY.

    PLEASE PLEASE stop sending me very long lists of questions via PM; I will not answer them and will simply have you repost in the forums.

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop sending me messages that are simply copies of things you have already posted in the forums.

    And PLEASEx4 stop sending me the same message again and again until I answer.

    Let's reserve PM's for technical issues and people who have very personal private issues. That way I can help more people much more quickly.

  6. #4
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    By now, pink swayers, you probably have a pretty good handle on the number of attempts youíre going to aim for, so Iíll lay out some examples and options of how you combine all these things together.

    UPDATE - I cannot stress strongly enough that sitting here in 2017 revising this essay - one attempt is GOLD. Timing and frequency and pH are crapola. So please do not be tempted, reading this essay, to ditch one attempt in favor of timing and frequency. We tried this and it was our worst results of the site. When we shifted focus to one attempt our results went up and have stayed up ever since. One attempt is most important. Do not keep old school sway tactics and add attempts!!

    You ~may~ want to have your husband reduce sperm numbers by frequency patterns IF he is willing to do so and you are not in a huge hurry to conceive. If not, thatís ok, you can have a great sway and many people have conceived girls doing boy frequency pattern (such as regular release or EOD) + one unprotected attempt. And remember, you are not locked into any of these tactics. You can start off doing a very strict sway and then loosen up over time, or you may find that something you thought would work for you as a couple, you or DH simply do not enjoy doing. Feel free to switch, itís not written in stone!

    What are the options for pink swayers?

    Abstain + 1 attempt: If you choose to do abstain, you are pretty much limited to one attempt by definition. I think it is best to time that attempt for maximum odds of pregnancy (timing doesnít sway!) Your best odds of conception are at O-2 and O-1, and since BD at positive OPK (O-1) tends to be much less stressful for people rather than blindly guessing at O-2, my advice is to BD once at pos OPK with abstain. If you are really sold on Shettles, then youíll want to try for an attempt on O-2.

    When swaying pink, your internal environment is so harsh to begin with that it is very difficult to get pregnant with BD on O-3, but if youíre not doing anything else to sway, you can give that a try. I really donít recommend that, however. You may be able to use a fade in on your OPK to help you pinpoint O-2, but these are not always accurate or even present.

    If youíre sold on O+12, BD 48 hours after a positive OPK (this is the least stressful method of O+12). Again, I do not recommend this method (like seriously, AT ALL, O+12 is my least fave sway tactic that there is) particularly with abstain, because sperm just may not be very healthy or capable after many days of abstaining and may not be able to make it to the egg in time, and it limits your odds of pregnancy drastically because many eggs donít even live much longer than 12 hours past ovulation.

    Note Ė you may notice I am skipping BD on O day for anyone doing just one attempt. The reason for this is nothing to do with timing, but simply because BD on O Day has significantly lower odds of conception than BD on O-1 or O-2. When youíre doing one attempt you need to time that attempt for best odds of conception and BD on O Day does not give you best odds. Plus, since itís traditionally a blue sway tactic, it seems doubtful that anyone being strict enough to limit themselves to one attempt would even want to BD on O Day. Even tho timing doesnít sway, I know that many people do want to keep it in the mix.

    FR + 1 attempt: If you choose frequent release instead, you may wish to limit yourself to one attempt. I personally believe attempt at pos OPK is easiest, but you have equally good odds of conception on O-2. Have DH release 7-10 times before your attempt. Do NOT count your attempt in the 7 days (see below).
    Since sperm are generally healthier with FR than abstain, you may even wish to push it to O-3 for the first month or two Ė not my advice, but it is possible.

    O+12 may have better odds of conception with FR than abstain Ė not my preferred method by a longshot but it may be slightly easier to conceive doing O+12, with FR, rather than abstain.

    FR + many attempts: UPDATE: I can no longer in good conscience recommend this method for the reasons I have spelled out in this thread, not the first post but a few down the page. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gen...nk-lately.html If you read the TTC blue section, you may recall the fertile window Ė the 5 days around ovulation where intercourse is most likely to yield conception. (O-3, O-2, O-1, O, O+1.) And you may also recall the microwindow (O-2, O-1, and to a much lesser extent, O Day) which are the days most likely to yield conception. If you are doing FR, you have the option of having attempts on more than one of these days in the fertile window in whatever pattern you like. 2 days, 3 days, all 5 days, alternating days, 10 attempts in 5 days Ė itís up to you. There are so many options (prob. with as much difference between them as a dime vs. 2 nickels) that I wonít even list them, but I do strongly urge you to BD on either O-2 or O-1 or both for the best odds of pg.

    Be sure that you have your DH release 7-10 days in a row before your FIRST attempt. There is nothing magic about just DTD 7 days in a row, you have to deplete his sperm numbers by having him release 7-10 days PRIOR to attempts. Some people have thought to include their attempts in this 7-10 day time period, but this has the potential to sway blue because DH will only have a couple of releases before the earliest attempts that might get you pregnant. His sperm numbers will just not be depleted enough without the FULL 7-10 days of release before the earliest attempt in your fertile window.

    Compressed FR + 1 attempt or many attempts: UPDATE: I can no longer in good conscience recommend this method for the reasons I have spelled out in this thread, not the first post but a few down the page. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gen...nk-lately.html You can use this as a technique itself, or as a rescue if something happens and either abstain or FR goes awry. For CFR, you will need to begin the process at least 2 days before the earliest attempt that can get you pregnant. Earlier in the month, have your husband release every 2-4 days to ensure there will be a good amount of sperm production going in Ė no need to abstain or do regular FR beforehand and it may even deplete sperm numbers too far to do so. The first two days of the CFR cycle, the 2 days prior to your earliest attempts, have your husband release 2-3 times (or even more if he can, more is better) and dump all these batches.

    The third day, have him release once in the morning and dump it. If he CAN, have him release right when he gets home from work (or in the afternoon if itís his day off) and dump that. Then, that evening, have your attempt, either a single attempt or the first of many. If you want to do many attempts with CFR, at some point you will want to drop the mid-day release. Your husband probably will not be able to keep up with that much releasing and also it may reduce sperm numbers too far.

    To use CFR as a rescue with abstain + 1 attempt, if something happens (nocturnal emission or a moment of weakness) and the abstain is interrupted, have him switch to CFR 2 days before your planned attempt. Have him release 2-3 times for 2 days, then have your attempt, with a release in the morning, a release at midday, and then an attempt that evening. Since youíre only doing one attempt, you may want to skip the midday release.

    If itís the last minute and your attempt is within 48 hours (not enough time to complete the CFR cycle) please see ďHurry-Up CFRĒ below.

    To use CFR as a rescue with FR (illness, exhaustion, you got interrupted one night by children, inlaws, or zombies) if you miss a day, have him release 2 times for 2 consecutive days and then resume the normal FR pattern. If itís the last minute and your attempt is within the next day, please see ďHurry-Up CFRĒ below.

    Hurry-Up CFR: I donít love this technique because I think it may lower sperm numbers too much to overcome lots of other sway strategies, and itís also very hard and stressful for some men to do (esp. while on licorice root!) BUT, it is a viable rescue method, as a last minute technique if you suddenly decide to attempt in a month you were planning to skip, and may be something to consider if your husband just really cannot or will not do any other frequency strategies. If you do decide to go with H-CFR, keep in mind that you may not want to use any jellies, might want to skip antihistamine (at least the day of your attempt) and you prob. should not do a jump and dump, to make sure that something is able to survive make it into the cervix. It may not be very much of a deposit and may not have as much semen to protect the sperm (also fewer in number) and so you need a less harsh environment for the sperm to survive in.

    To do an H-CFR, DH should release once and dump it, then as SOON as he is possibly able to, you should have an attempt. Donít go any more than 3-6 hours between rounds and sooner is better. This will yield a small batch of semen with fewer sperm in it.

    Abstain then CFR: Again, this is not a strategy I personally love, for the reason that abstaining and then getting a lot of sex may kick sperm production into a higher gear for some men and so then your subsequent attempts run the risk of being higher in sperm numbers than they might have otherwise been (and it will all be super fresh and extra healthy, because your husbandís body had shut down most sperm production during the abstain). But for people who want to include timing and have a cutoff AND O+12, it is a way to keep abstain and timing both in the mix if you are a big believer in those strategies, while still improving odds of pg. Please be aware, if you go this route with O+12, the odds are quite high that it will be the first batch of sperm that gets you pregnant and not the O+12. If you LOVE O+12, then you need to do just O+12.

    For abstain with cutoff plus O+12 have your husband abstain for 7-10 days prior to your first attempt. Have your first attempt on O-3 or O-2 with the abstain batch (do NOT have him release and then dump it, use the abstain batch for your one attempt). Have your husband immediately switch to CFR and begin releasing 2-3 times a day for the next couple of days. Dump all these batches. 48 hours after a positive OPK, have another attempt using the second batch of that day (dump the first.)

    For abstain and then BD thru O, have your husband abstain for 7-10 days prior to your first attempt. The timing of your first attempt is at your discretion. O-3, O-2, O-1 are all viable options. You may even wish to have two attempts back to back within 3-6 hours (see Hurry-Up CFR above). The next day, have DH release 3 times, dumping the first two and using only the last batch for insemination (it is possible to use the second batch instead, but with this method itís best to at least TRY for three releases the first day, anyway). Repeat for as many days as you like, keeping in mind that any attempts past O+1 will be wasted. If at some point after a day or two, he canít keep up the pace, you can switch to just doing 2 releases, but itís best for at least the first couple days after the abstain, to try for 3 releases, using only the third. Again, I do not recommend anyone do this because we've had such overwhelmingly good results with one attempt.

    IMPORTANT UPDATE: In the time since I originally wrote this essay, one attempt has shown itself to be BY FAR superior to frequency/timing, and so as a result I suggest dropping ALL other sway tactics BEFORE adding attempts.
    Last edited by atomic sagebrush; December 12th, 2017 at 11:09 AM.
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  8. #5
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    BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!!!

    In the 5 years since I originally wrote this essay we have a humongous body of data compiled and we have actually found safer ways to add attempts and boost odds of conception without totally undoing a pink sway.

    Remember, it's best to drop ALL other sway tactics except diet, exercise, and Clomid or Femara if you can get them, before adding attempts. But let's say you've done that. Now what? You're still not getting pregnant and something's gotta give. So let's go over what we do next to get you preggo, and how to add attempts without inadvertently swaying blue.

    Regular release or EOD plus one attempt: Just have your hubby release on his own or with you, with a condom, every 2-4 days starting as far in advance as is feasible (since sperm take 72 days to form, even a month or more in advance is not overkill here). And then keep the one attempt at positive OPK or a cutoff if you MUST. If he has a very high sex drive you can even have him release every other day (EOD) plus one attempt - obviously this is not going to be as high of a chance of conception as regular release + one attempt but it's better than abstain or FR!

    Why do this? Well, in the 5 years since I wrote this original series of essays, it has become blatantly obvious that frequency patterns like abstain and FR are NOT working and one attempt really IS. So it makes sense to let go of the stuff that isn't working (in this case, frequency) given that the frequency patterns really do cut odds of conception hugely and make hubbies super duperly cranky to boot, and focus on boosting our chances of getting pregnant with the magical one attempt. Especially if you are in any hurry to conceive due to age, work needs, family spacing, or so on, regular release (or EOD to a lesser extent) plus one attempt is something to seriously consider.

    Or if you really really believe in pH or timing but you're willing to let go on frequency, this can be a good compromise between keeping things you want in your sway, and letting go on things that aren't working anyway and still being in with a chance of conceiving!

    Someone asked me how many days prior to one attempt should you avoid having unprotected sex. I would give it 4 or even 5 days to be on the safest side. We are not totally sure how one attempt works, and if it is some sort of primitive communication between batches of sperm, it may be best to be absolutely certain everything is dead before having the one attempt and 4-5 days should accomplish that. If you're really paranoid, longer would be better but given that we've had good results with e4d (see below) I believe 4-5 days is enough of a gap between unprotected, non-fertile sex and your one attempt.

    Every 4 days method (e4d): First of all let me stress that there is NOTHING magically delicious about having unprotected sex every 4 days. It doesn't matter if you do this method with 3 days in between BD rounds or 4 days in between BD rounds. The "every 4 days" term is just a name, it's just an easy and effortless way to be in with regular attempts that are far enough apart to pretty much qualify as one attempt.

    You can do e4d in a Monday/Thursday (O-3/O Day) pattern or a Monday/Friday (O-4/O Day) pattern. I hope it is obvious you do not need to stick to those days, I'm just trying to illustrate the pattern here - could just as easily be Tues/Fri or Wed/Sun or whatever. Which option to pick depends on what YOU personally have as your main priority in your sway. If you are wanting a better pink sway and are ok with somewhat lower odds of conception, go with the O-4/O Day pattern (again, does not need to be on these days, it's illustrating the pattern - could also be O-5 and O-1 or O-6 and O-2). If you are wanting better odds of conception and possibly lower odds of pink then go with the O-3/O Day pattern (or O-4/O-1, O-5/O-2). Pick whichever option meets your needs best.

    How to do e4d: Start the day after your period ends or if you're taking Clomid or Femara, the day after your last dose. You are NOT trying to make your attempts fall on any particular day. I repeat, DO NOT try to make your attempts land on any particular day. You want this to be effortless and to mostly forget about the pattern all together.

    Very important - keep going with the pattern even after you think you've ovulated. Do NOT stop having unprotected sex every 4 days until you are absolutely positively certain you have ovulated, even if that means going all the way till your next AF begins (or BFP, whichever comes first.) Also very important - do NOT wait till the last possible minute to begin. Start the pattern before you could possibly be in the fertile window. Donít wait till CD 11 or whenever because not only is it kind of last minute stress-y, but it also makes it much more likely you could end up missing your fertile window entirely.

    With e4d, you want the element of randomness on your side. You cannot ever know when youíll ovulate (and even if youíre super regular, swaying changes that) and you cannot ever know what day of the cycle is really best for you to get pregnant on. So itís really easy to outwit yourself aiming e4d at a particular day thinking that is the best day to conceive, when it really may be the next day or two days before. Just pick a day at random (like the day your period ends or the day you take your last dose of Clomid/Femara) and then put it out of your mind.

    Another possible use for e4d - I often have people who want to try with one attempt at pos OPK or with a cutoff, do every 4 days only AFTER their attempt. This is a protective measure against delayed ovulation. Just keep going with every 4-5 days or so and that way if your ovulation is delayed by a week or even two, youíre still in with an attempt, you havenít lost the entire month!!

    If you are just getting started with trying to conceive and canít get OPK to work or you just donít want to be bothered with them, you can stretch this out to every 5,6,7 days. Itís obviously not going to be the best chances of conceiving, but it definitely be one attempt (without having to mess around tracking cycles and doing OPK tests) and youíve still got a chance of catching the egg!

    Do NOT do "e3d" unprotected every 3 days (also called EOD). This has caused endless amounts of confusion and people typically ended up doing every other day (EOD), which is both likely blue friendly and is not even good odds of conception. E3d can easily end up being attempts on O-5, O-3 and O-1 (which is really just one viable attempt, since O-3 attempts are not great at getting people pregnant) or O-6, O-4, and O-2 (which is definitely one attempt since O-4 and O Day are slim odds of conception). And since we donít actually know how one attempt sways, the every other day BD still very possibly qualifies as 2-3 attempts, which sways blue. Itís the worst of both worlds. E3d needs to be dropped from our swaying terminology as a term that does no good and much harm. If you don't get pregnant with e4d then go to e4d plus one (see below) or even SMEP (also below) instead of e3d. At least youíll get pregnant that way!!

    Every 4 day method plus one: If you've tried one attempt and tried every 4 days AND dropped all the ineffective sway tactics you can but still haven't gotten pregnant, try doing e4d plus one. This means you do BOTH e4d and one attempt (usually at positive OPK). Start the e4d after your period ends or right after your last dose of Clomid or Femara, and continue on with e4d for the rest of the month, even after you think you've ovulated, to guard against delayed ovulation.

    Then, in addition to that (continuing with the same e4d pattern the entire time! don't change the e4d pattern when you have your pos OPK attempt!) you should have one more attempt at positive OPK or on the day you expect O-1 to fall whenever that may be. If that is the day you're due for your e4d attempt, while you can stick with that e4d attempt if you so choose, I'd suggest having another attempt anyway, that night or the next morning or the following night. After all, we are doing e4d plus one to boost odds of conception and you aren't boosting your odds if you won't have another attempt!!

    If you were doing e4d in the Mon/Thurs, O-3/O Day pattern, you may want to stretch it another day to Mon/Fri, O-4/O Day when adding the additional attempt at pos OPK or O-1. But you don't have to, and in fact most people don't.

    I would give this method at least 2-3 months with NO other sway tactics (other than diet, exercise, and Clomid or Femara if you can get them) before finally moving on to SMEP (see below) You may even consider adding in things that can boost your chances of conception with e4d plus one before moving on to SMEP. Iím talking about Preseed, guaifenesin, female orgasm, and dropping jump and dump totally. You may want to stay laying down for 30 minutes to an hour after intercourse or even overnight, and spending at least part of that time on your tummy instead of your back. There is NO RUSH to go to SMEP; e4d plus one should have very good chances of conception anyway.

    Make absolutely totally sure you have dropped shallow release . I often find that people continue shallow release even after having dropped everything else and even added some things that sway blue!! Shallow release has never even been proven to sway and it cuts odds of conception massively.

    Finally, if youíve tried everything else and still havenít gotten pregnant,

    SMEP: Aka the Sperm Meets Egg plan. You can find more about SMEP here Sperm Meets Egg Plan This is the best chance to get pregnant. It tends to sway blue, but you can find people who conceived girls on it (because remember, swaying never comes down to one thing!)

    At such a point in time when you have dropped all the less effective sway tactics like timing, pH, frequency, etc and youíre sure you havenít lost too much weight (youíve even relaxed on diet and exercise) and youííve already tried all the other available options including e4d and e4d plus one, then and only then should you go to SMEP. SMEP is NOT the first line of defense, it is the last ditch effort to try when you have tried literally everything else first. I would rather see you guys adding in Preseed and guaifenesin than doing SMEP.

    People will sometimes come to me and tell me they know someone who got a girl doing SMEP and because of this, they want to try it right from the start, or very early along in the sway process. And I simply do not think itís a good idea. Everything Iíve seen along the way these past 7 years tells me itís not a good idea. People can and DO get girls doing SMEP but it is often after having tried to conceive for a long time and generally speaking they have underlying fertility challenges. The results will be very different for a couple who is fully or even highly fertile. So while itís always your sway, your way, and I have used SMEP (successfully) for some pink swayers in the past who had been trying to conceive for ages, it is not something I will ever sign off on for the average person - even if you do know 100 people who got girls that way!!
    Last edited by atomic sagebrush; December 12th, 2017 at 11:29 AM.
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  9. #6
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    No, it's not too close, it's just that most people don't have CBFM and for the majority I think it's easiest to BD at pos OPK.

    The study that we have that showed O-1 had better rates of conception, didn't break it down to the hour, KWIM?? I think that anytime before ovulation is great for conception, whether it's 20 hours or 8 - the point is that the sperm have time to make it to the egg BEFORE ovulation and they're waiting there with some of them capacitated. That's how people get pg. This 'race to the egg' Shettles boy-timing/O+12 bizness does not make for good rates of pregnancy.

    If you are doing straight FR, you do not need to have him release before your attempt and in fact if you did it might cut down on your odds of pg too far with everything else you're doing.

    Sudafed 1-2 hours before BD.
    !!! Questions?? Check out the NEW and improved Complete Index !!!

    Private Messages are NEVER the best way to get in contact with me quickly. You will always hear from me in the forums much faster.

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  10. #7
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    I wish this essay was around before I did my sway... I would have done things differently.
    2004 2006 2010 2012

    My BOY sway worked!! THANK YOU GENDER DREAMING!!

  11. #8
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    Thank you so much Atomic!! This is just what I needed to read to help me make decisions for my upcoming sway
    Me (34) DH (34) (2010) (2013 LE sway opposite)

    Cycle 1 HRC Nov 2015: 9 retrieved, 6 mature, 5 fertilized, 4 biopsied, 2 normal XY = NT
    Cycle 2 HRC Mar 2016: 13 retrieved, 12 mature, 11 fertilized, 9 biopsied, 6 normal = 5 XX, 1 XY!
    FET #1 Aug 2016: Chemical
    FET #2 Nov 2016 Immune protocol: BFP! HB at 7 and 10 weeks. No HB at 12 weeks Miscarriage.
    FET #3 Aug 2017 Immune protocol: BFP!

  12. #9
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    Thank you! Pardon my ignorance, is this different than before?
    '08 '09 '12 It's twins!


  13. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbermittens View Post
    I wish this essay was around before I did my sway... I would have done things differently.
    I'm so sorry Hobber. I don't think I could have written it much before now because I didn't have it all fleshed out in my mind well enough. I hope you can forgive me.

    edited to add - she got a boy, which was what she wanted and had swayed for. Diet and exercise WORK even when you can't get the frequency stuff right
    Last edited by atomic sagebrush; December 9th, 2017 at 04:02 PM.
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