What are the REAL differences between X sperm and Y sperm??

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Originally Posted by BZ94

Been wondering--and this might be the place to post it--how does "big O" affect gender selection? Been obsessing on the fact that despite my best effort I had a big O when ttc the baby I'm now 10 weeks pregnant with, but it seems based on the above info, it might not have made a difference? (I was ttc girl btw)...

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BZ94, the info above are my suspects...I have no evidences! Anyway it would be something that happens in the moment of the fertilization the egg. During the way from de VJ to the egg, the sperm swim in CM. This CM and VJ fluids seems to be more alkaline when you have a big O, so sways blue because it increase the amount of spermies that get the egg zone. But I guess atomic, will be able to explain it better, I really haven´t read much about big O, and don´t think if you had a big O means that you haven´t a little girl!!! In fact I didn´t have a big O when conceived my DS and he´s all boy :wink:

Sorry to continue with it, but I keep reading about it, and all the mechanism of a fertilization is based in proteins recognition and fusion between them. So definitively something around quantity and type of the proteins egg membrane´s must be. My assumption is that hormones and diet determinate the proteines of the egg (likely to X or Y) and thus, keep off the other gender sperm, through a mechanism similar to the blockade that the egg does once is fertilized, avoiding the entrance of more spermies.... could be? :think:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g_7gZcmj7w

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articl...ystery-solved/


(this last link is more about the attraction power of progesterone...maybe atracts more x than y??well don´t know because the scientific articles are difficoult to me to read in english :think:

Anyway......AMAZING!!!! I love research about it!! :HH:

Anything is possible and for right now it's as good a theory as any, I don't discount anything and have read about it before, BUT I don't think it's super likely for a few different reasons.

Firstly, boy/girl twins and multiples like Jon and Kate where there are both boys and girls, and secondly when people go high tech and get equal gender splits.

Secondly because for most of the time while they are developing, X and Y sperm are just one big XY cell wearing the exact same skin - only at the point where they divide, which is near the end of their development, do they even become different things at all, until then they are one thing with one skin and so it seems likely that their skin stays the same after they divide too, so externally X and Y sperm are probably not even any different.

Thirdly, some things that have been best proven to sway are coming from men, low sperm count and quality regardless of reason sways pink, and so that doesn't seem to add up at all to me that the egg is choosing anything.

And lastly, it's because it's a "magic bullet" solution and nothing in the human body works like a magic bullet. I do not think that gender ratio can come down to one surefire thing like that, where if we get everything just so, the egg will always "choose" the right gender sperm.

In terms of the other study that is done in marine mammals, it is not good for our purposes, because mammal eggs don't work the same way because they have internal fertilization. Marine animal's eggs have to keep sperm from other animals that is also floating around in the ocean from fertilizing them and so have different mechanisms in order to do that. Plus, marine animals, even up to crocodiles, have been proven to have other things that affect gender ratio (like minerals, temperature, and the presence of another of a different gender) that don't affect humans at all, and many of them can actually change genders anyway.

The LE Diet provides a normal protein intake and actually more than most people get around the world and throughout history, yet babies have been born at about 50-50 all the time around the world, so I just don't think protein intake can have that much of a cause and effect that way. If anything, I think that a poor diet would make a thicker eggshell (age does this too) and that's what gives the bigger X a potential advantage.

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Originally Posted by BZ94

Been wondering--and this might be the place to post it--how does "big O" affect gender selection? Been obsessing on the fact that despite my best effort I had a big O when ttc the baby I'm now 10 weeks pregnant with, but it seems based on the above info, it might not have made a difference? (I was ttc girl btw)...

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I had one too when I got my DD, BZ.

We've done polls on IG and GD and there have def. been many girl moms who had big O's, I would try not to worry at all. I do think it's one of those things that may help a bit, but is not a make or break thing at all.

Thanks for your thoughts, atomic!! They have a lot of sense, It were just my assumptions...although I still suspect there´s something around the egg membrane..I wish to be a scientific woman who works investigating it!! :bigsmile:

And a last question about this....so,if you don´t think the egg "selects" the sperm, or its membrane can be influenced....how does the diet and hormones work in a sway? I mean, if diet and hormones doesn´t affect directly the egg, what does the diet and hormones affect to? only CM and thus, sway? :think: (I know the low sugar blood is good for a female implantation, but I don´t mention because it would be a sway tactic "after" the baby is conceived, not a way to advantage an sperm respect the other, isn´t it?

Also I was thinking about the twins with 2 genders....could be a "neutral" membrane if the diet and hormones are in a perfect balance, and respect the different proteins surfaces of X and Y spermies, could be something that happens after, altough they come from the same cell (like in babies that generates all kind of cells from just one) :think:

I don´t want to seem that I have a special interest in alll this around membrane egg to be true, is just because I find a lot of sense in this theory and just can share my thoughts about sway in this site, anyway for me is completely complementary to all your info here :agree:

I think the diet and hormones do something to the CM that either affects X and Y differently, sends some signal to X or Y that make them possibly capacitate at different rates, or kills off more sperm, and then it's the numbers of sperm that is swaying somehow. My theory is that if more sperm reach the egg, it somehow gives Y an advantage, and if fewer sperm reach the egg, it somehow gives X an advantage, but an advantage is all - I simply do not believe that there is anything out there that sways all the time. I think it's a mechanical advantage, not a chemical one...the X sperm are just a tiny bit bigger and so may be able to get through the egg with fewer sperm to help them (it takes lots of sperm to get through the eggshell) and maybe if more are there, the slightly smaller Y sperm have an advantage.

I don't believe in ideas like "balance" when it comes to hormones - the human body is always in flux, I just don't think it works like that.

I appreciate you sharing your info! That's what this site is all about! Thank you!!! :)

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Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush

I think the diet and hormones do something to the CM that either affects X and Y differently, sends some signal to X or Y that make them possibly capacitate at different rates, or kills off more sperm, and then it's the numbers of sperm that is swaying somehow. My theory is that if more sperm reach the egg, it somehow gives Y an advantage, and if fewer sperm reach the egg, it somehow gives X an advantage, but an advantage is all - I simply do not believe that there is anything out there that sways all the time. I think it's a mechanical advantage, not a chemical one...the X sperm are just a tiny bit bigger and so may be able to get through the egg with fewer sperm to help them (it takes lots of sperm to get through the eggshell) and maybe if more are there, the slightly smaller Y sperm have an advantage.

I don't believe in ideas like "balance" when it comes to hormones - the human body is always in flux, I just don't think it works like that.

I appreciate you sharing your info! That's what this site is all about! Thank you!!! :)

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thank you very much atomic, I love read your conclussions! it´s really interesting what you say about "a mechanical advantage, not a chemical one" , and in fact has a LOT of sense (and probably the egg membrane has a role in play just around this "mechanich" process simply being harder or softer, and not about chemical unions between cell proteins ..... :think: I don´t know if one day we will know how it works but definitively, but if it happens, you will have contributed a lot with your support on here. :happy:

Yes, exactly - the diet may affect CM and then the eggshell itself, and then those two things combined PLUS sperm count/quality, offer an advantage to one sperm vs. the other.

The way I think of it, is a pencil that is sharp vs. an unsharpened one, and a piece of paper vs. a piece of cardboard...the sharp pencil can poke right thru a piece of paper but if you tried to put it into cardboard the tip might break off, while an unsharpened pencil would just slide right off paper but you could stick it through the piece of cardboard if you used enough force. Or it may work the exact opposite way - the pointy ones may have an advantage at cardboard and the thicker may have an advantage with thin paper. So the more/less swimmers are at the egg, it makes the shell easier to penetrate by Y sperm and somehow that's what is doing the swaying. It's just a theory but I wanted to come up with a theory that didn't involve any undiscovered things like ions or protein, and it seems to explain everything pretty well, even the stuff that wasn't able to be explained by other theories.

It has totally sense to me atomic, it´s great!!!:agree:

Hi atomic, as you know since my docor told me about those men who "almost all" were Y or X :worry: I´m searching for info about this, not because I believe she could really "saw" it, but to know about what happens after the 50x-50y production. I´m agree with you about after the "production" things may happens that do a sligh gap between alives x and y, trought hormones, chemicals or we don´t why (we talk about it in another thread I can´t remember now).

Since I´m really worried that my body never is going to think for me is better to choice a girl, I´m trying to focus also in what my DH can do for the sway too. And reading this document you linked I just saw this chart and couldn´t be more scared. Please I would like you to tell me if I haven´t understand it correctly.

Attachment 7348

I assume they tested a sample from various donors to see the measurement of x and y, and we can see there´s no such a big difference between them. Ok,all right about it. But what really scare me is last columns...... why in the samples the collected (with x and y mixed in theory) is SO big the diferents x- y percentages?? :nails: There´s many samples donors that are 100% x or y? statically it shouldn´t happen. No one donor is about a 50-50???. Am I missunderstanding the chart?

As you told me we know men like divers or airmen have mostly girls...do you think the gap can be so big? it could be fantastic or very bad for a sway, because if we (women) do such an effort to sway, and our DH give us a batch 80% (for example) of the oppositte gender is really frustrating.... What my DH can do to sway apart from sudafed, tons of soy, licorice root, hot baths (and abstain to make all these ingredients do the effect on the y sperm) ? (Besides all this, he only can pray, can´t he?... ;)

Mariposa, if you look at the table where it says no. of spermatozoa, it doesn't say no.of spermatozoa/million. This means that those numbers listed are the real numbers, therefore for donor 2 they have only selected 14 sperm.

If you read the method you will see that they selected roughly 100 sperm for each donor, and the ratio of x to y was 1:1. They noticed a difference in the sperm shapes and sizes between x and y, but they noted that the differences were in many cases specific to the individual donor. So in some donors the x sperm were consistently bigger and longer, and in others it was the other way round.

What they were doing in that table was taking a small sample from these donors who had differences in the shape and size of the sperm, and then separating the sperm based on size and shape. As you can see by the results, it was quite accurate in predicting whether the sperm was x or y. And if you look donor 9 sperm is completely the opposite to everyone elses.

I hope I've managed to explain that properly!

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Originally Posted by Pangea

Mariposa, if you look at the table where it says no. of spermatozoa, it doesn't say no.of spermatozoa/million. This means that those numbers listed are the real numbers, therefore for donor 2 they have only selected 14 sperm.

If you read the method you will see that they selected roughly 100 sperm for each donor, and the ratio of x to y was 1:1. They noticed a difference in the sperm shapes and sizes between x and y, but they noted that the differences were in many cases specific to the individual donor. So in some donors the x sperm were consistently bigger and longer, and in others it was the other way round.

What they were doing in that table was taking a small sample from these donors who had differences in the shape and size of the sperm, and then separating the sperm based on size and shape. As you can see by the results, it was quite accurate in predicting whether the sperm was x or y. And if you look donor 9 sperm is completely the opposite to everyone elses.

I hope I've managed to explain that properly!

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thanks Pangea!!! you have explained it very well to me... It´s hard to understand fully the medical text in english and often I go directly to conclussions and charts to make it easy to me :worry:So, there are men with big differences in shape and size , while in other men is more or less the same?...interesting!!! I wish I know what kind is my DH sperm... :bigsmile:
But the important is that still ratio like 1:1!! :agree: it will be interesting if we could know if the 1:1 are both alived in the same proportion or we could do things to kill or "sleep" the opposite gender sperm.....

What do you mean by day length and temperature? thanks!!

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Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush

See I think it's really encouraging because it allows us to expend our energy on things that actualy sway rather than chasing after old wives tales and bad science.

Things that actually sway:

Blood sugar in woman
Testosterone in man and woman
Sperm count and quality
Maternal condition

Things that may sway:
Estrogen levels in man and woman
Environmental toxins
Temperature
Day length
pH (even if it doesn't sway in the way that people once believed it does, it may sway in some other way)
Quality and consistency of CM

These things can ALL be controlled in some manner or another. Things like diet, frequency of BD, and the supps we take are ways that we can alter those things.

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Thanks so much for this thread and the recent essay linked form the main page about why the timing method doesn't work. I am finally starting to understand how gender swaying works

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Originally Posted by 1adorablebabyboymom

What do you mean by day length and temperature? thanks!!

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Oh sorry this one sneaked past me it's in this essay http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...s-swaying.html

bump updated version

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Originally Posted by mariposa

Hi atomic, as you know since my docor told me about those men who "almost all" were Y or X :worry: I´m searching for info about this, not because I believe she could really "saw" it, but to know about what happens after the 50x-50y production. I´m agree with you about after the "production" things may happens that do a sligh gap between alives x and y, trought hormones, chemicals or we don´t why (we talk about it in another thread I can´t remember now).

Since I´m really worried that my body never is going to think for me is better to choice a girl, I´m trying to focus also in what my DH can do for the sway too. And reading this document you linked I just saw this chart and couldn´t be more scared. Please I would like you to tell me if I haven´t understand it correctly.

Attachment 7348

I assume they tested a sample from various donors to see the measurement of x and y, and we can see there´s no such a big difference between them. Ok,all right about it. But what really scare me is last columns...... why in the samples the collected (with x and y mixed in theory) is SO big the diferents x- y percentages?? :nails: There´s many samples donors that are 100% x or y? statically it shouldn´t happen. No one donor is about a 50-50???. Am I missunderstanding the chart?

As you told me we know men like divers or airmen have mostly girls...do you think the gap can be so big? it could be fantastic or very bad for a sway, because if we (women) do such an effort to sway, and our DH give us a batch 80% (for example) of the oppositte gender is really frustrating.... What my DH can do to sway apart from sudafed, tons of soy, licorice root, hot baths (and abstain to make all these ingredients do the effect on the y sperm) ? (Besides all this, he only can pray, can´t he?... ;)

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I would just like to point out that this poor woman was told BY HER DOCTOR that men made "almost all X or Y sperm" and that she had no hope of a daughter - completely untrue and supported by NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE at all - and she then did still go on to get a girl via swaying.

There are medical experts out there who don't know what they're talking about, who tell people entirely wrong things about gender ratio and genetics and X and Y sperm and it happens every day. PLEASE do not panic when you are told something that simply cannot be true - that you "can't" make boys or girls, that your husband "only" makes boys or girls...and here are two essays with more detail about both of those things!

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/sway...f-that-gender=

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...make-boys.html