Not pregnant -- ME?

[Throwaway_panther]

I need a little moral support and maybe some input. We made it a go to TTC this month. Did essentially SMEP with three attempts at pos OPK and used two different brands of OPKs to double check.

I just woke up to my period. I have gotten pregnant without trying THREE times in the last year. I didn't do any tracking whatsoever but was stressing and killing myself before DD.

Now my thyroid levels are good and I put in the effort and nothing?! I was so symptomatic I was pretty sure I was pregnant, too. I had two days of BARELY there lines on HPTs, so I don't even know if this was a chemical or I'm just seeing those lines.

Do I need to worry about this affecting my sway that I didn't fall pregnant the moment we tried? We've seemed so fertile every other time that I thought we'd be golden...

Additionally: I had an early and short surge this cycle. That surprised me, and I wondered if maybe it was deceptive and I O'd late, but we still DTD every few days after. Now I'm wondering if I even O'd at all?

I had all my eggs in this basket. I am completely miffed. My breasts have been SO sore, too...

[EnglishDame]

*hugs*

I just found out I'm not pregnant either after first month trying. We are swaying pink with clomid and metformin and I normally fall pregnant easily too so kind of just expected to fall first month. I feel pretty gutted so just wanted to say you're not alone!

I wouldn't base your fertility overall on one month though when you look at the percentage chance of falling pregnant in any given month it does make you realise it's just Luck really. I'm sure next month will be your month.

Hope you're ok!

[ksmom]

I'm so sorry. Fertile couples have on average a 25% chance of conceiving each month and it can take several months of trying to get pregnant. It took us a year to conceive ds1 and that was with well timed BD each month! DH has a high sperm count so you'd think it would have happened sooner. So many things have to go right for a woman to get pregnant and stay pregnant. Like Englishdame said, a lot of it is luck. I hope you get pregnant soon!

[Throwaway_panther]

Thank you EnglishDame!

I'm sort of spinning and figuring out everything I can do. I know objectively it's only a 20% shot, but it looked like I didn't have to worry about those odds myself! I'm trying not to feel defeated by this and thinking about the things that are opened in this next month of TTC (2 or 3 times I can let myself have one beer; more time to lift weights 2 weeks from now; found out DH was adding flax to his cereal so I CUT THAT OUT, DD will be 15 months which will please atomic more than her being 14 months haha).

I'm just concerned it's something wrong with me still. Wr had some awesome things I thought would work well for this last month (DH had some high ass T, I can tell you that) but after ovulation my DD got an ear infection so I went from nursing her 3x a day to like 5 or 6x again, so maybe the egg DID fertilize but my body thought shit was going down?

I'm weaning her down to 2x a day so hopefully that can only help too?

I can't stop thinking >_<

[Throwaway_panther]

As a bump -- does acupuncture sway blue? I have access to legit, cheap acupuncture and am considering doing it just to be safe/make me feel like I'm doing something. The only info I could find on here is mostly in HT posts, and in one failed blue sway :nails:

Also I had weaned off wheatgrass supps maybe 2-3 months ago -- could that have affected anything?

[XXforhubby]

As a bump -- does acupuncture sway blue? I have access to legit, cheap acupuncture and am considering doing it just to be safe/make me feel like I'm doing something. The only info I could find on here is mostly in HT posts, and in one failed blue sway :nails:

Also I had weaned off wheatgrass supps maybe 2-3 months ago -- could that have affected anything?

Yes to acupuncture!!! I believe that was a contributing factor with my DS3. Also Yoga and constantly meddling with my sway! Poor Atomic! She's a saint for dealing with me back then!

I cannot say anything about wheatgrass, but green tea was a big factor with my DS1 and DS2.

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[XXforhubby]

Sorry about your BFN [emoji20]. I wouldn't worry if it takes a bit- DS2 took 3 mo and DS3 took 8 mo.

(((Hugs)))


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[SoFullofHope]

.

[maximbella]

BIG HUGS throwaway!!! I can totally sympathize! We were lucky enough to conceive DD1 first month and DD2 was a total shocker. After years of thinking we were done, I was able to convince DH to try for a 3rd baby. He was on the fence and I was so confident that with my history of getting pregnant so quickly, it would happen again quickly, so we agreed to trying for only one month under the assumption of "if it's meant to be it will happen". Well, it didn't happen month one. I convinced him to try for another month, and again it didn't happen. Eight cycles later (some of which were LOOOONG), we went to see an RE and got a rx for Femara. I would have never in my wildest dreams thought that this was our path. Each cycle I was convinced that I was pregnant - my chart looked amazing, I had every symptom, etc. I also had several cycles of seeing a very faint double line on my hpt's, only to get my period days later. It's hard, I know...but hang in there! It WILL happen!

[Throwaway_panther]

Thank you everyone -- and XX, I forgot you did acupuncture and yoga! I'm going to do both for sure (I already do the latter!). I've been drinking black tea but might try weaning down to green tea. I always get a weird soapy taste from green tea thougj, almost like I do for cilantro!

And you're all right it's an odds game; I'm just shook from how I was getting pregnant against all odds FOUR times in a row! Then conditions are perfect and I don't get pregnant! Gah!

[XXforhubby]

Thank you everyone -- and XX, I forgot you did acupuncture and yoga! I'm going to do both for sure (I already do the latter!). I've been drinking black tea but might try weaning down to green tea. I always get a weird soapy taste from green tea thougj, almost like I do for cilantro!

And you're all right it's an odds game; I'm just shook from how I was getting pregnant against all odds FOUR times in a row! Then conditions are perfect and I don't get pregnant! Gah!

Hang in there sweetie! I know it will happen for you!

The best green tea by far and away is the Organic Darjeeling Green Tea by the Stash Tea Co.! Oh, it's great! I love it straight, but my DH liked a bit of raw honey in his! Oh, and loose is best but the bags are fine too. I just like to control my caffeine, haha!


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[XXforhubby]

I drank black tea in the morning with my DS2 and had the green tea I mentioned above in the afternoons! I'm looking forward to being able to drink it again after being off it for 3.5yrs!!!! Gah!


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[Burakoam]

:bighug:

i conceived DD1 1 attempt in 1 month NOT trying, DD2 took 4 months of not trying not preventing and then 3 months of actually trying for 7 months total to conceive..DD3 i was so frantic to get pregnant with and she took 7 months + clomid (which was the 8th month really)...i found my annovulatory cycles to be particularly brutal about making me THINK i was pregnant when i really wasnt..your body wants to ovulate and if something interrupts that it makes it really pissed off. If i had to guess i think the short surge is suggesting that yes this cycle you didnt actually ovulate and it could have been stress related or it could just be your body still adjusting to normal thyroid levels..

i think the only reason i was able to conceive dd4 (first egg after weaning *completely*) so fast is because i was so convinced it wasnt going to happen without clomid that i wasnt obsessing over getting pregnant like i had been with DD3..the first cycle when i started to wean DD3 (june)was weird to me too and i was worried i was going to repeat the same shit another pregnancy but i didnt pop an egg until i had completely weaned DD3 (july).. i am convinced i am the type of woman who was not going to get pregnant while breastfeeding, my body just refused. Maybe before you could get pregnant while breastfeeding BECAUSE your thyroid levels were off...if that makes sense? maybe now that they are on track your body is not wanting you to get pregnant while you are still breastfeeding

[LMSM]

TP – I had not seen this – considering the pattern of your falling pregnant when not trying, I can understand you must have been so at loss and disappointed when you didn’t fall when actually trying. And not having control when you think you do (oh the boy mum traits, eh? ;) )
Luck is definitely one of the biggest factors, maybe your thyroid being back where it should be also changed the “fertility landscape” somewhat, which doesn’t mean you won’t pregnant next try – and all go well. Maybe you were so hyped about actually trying after waiting for so long to be “allowed” to, and being SURE you would fall pregnant first go that you maybe were too into it and put too much pressure on yourself?
Giving yourself the best odds next month whilst letting go when and where you can might help – it will definitely happen, you are a super super uber fertile couple, so it’s just a matter of when - ;)
Oh and the increased nursing might definitely have had an impact – as prolactin is an ovulation inhibitor – so if you go back to your regular nursing pattern you might be good to go ;)
FX for a BFP asap hon ^^

[Throwaway_panther]

:bighug:

Maybe before you could get pregnant while breastfeeding BECAUSE your thyroid levels were off...if that makes sense? maybe now that they are on track your body is not wanting you to get pregnant while you are still breastfeeding

I <3 you and appreciate the comment, but that's not a thing at all. Especially since my levels were hypo, not hyper. And I want to reiterate -- I wasn't just symptomatic, I had some VERY faint bfps too. I think I might have gotten the egg but it was an implantation issue? My LP was 11/12 days (period started on 12 days), but I strongly suspect my LP was like this before DD too.

@LMSM: Thank you for your comments! I really appreciate it. I was actually NOT stressed at all -- I felt pretty relaxed, which made me worry it'd sway pink even, because I was so sure this would be it. And I was a hooooot mess before DD haha, so any stress now pales in comparison to that. I did conceive twice while DD was EBF, no solids, but clearly both were losses, so I'm wondering if implantation is more the issue here. The increase in breastfeeding during DD's ear infection was after O, not before, too!

Focusing on everything possible I can to up fertility this month to be safe. DD'd back to nursing only 2x a day. DH asked if we could have more sex to see if that could help... but I don't think I could handle 10 attempts at O lol

[LMSM]

Sounds like at least you've ruled out some things so you can focus on what definitely helps fertility and co.
In any case, too much sex can sway pink too, so 10 attempts wouldn't be recommended (sorry to your dh lol) :D
At the end of the day, take comfort in that you do fall pregnant easily an de though it may not have taken this cycle, noti g says it won't this next one...it's such a luck of the draw, even if all the stars align perfectly, so to speak.
fX!!

[atomic sagebrush]

I"m so sorry I keep seeing this go by right when I'm juggling 10 other things.

I know it's really hard when it has happened easily in the past but some months just aren't THE month. Honestly, it's such a miraculous thing that happens that the miracle is not that it doesn't work out when it doesn't, but that it does as often as it does (not even sure that makes sense LOL)

Let's not worry about your sway. Let's look at this as God/the universe's way of making sure you didn't fall pregnant in a month that wasn't right for some reason that only they know. For all we know, this means you will only have a BETTER sway the next time through.

When was the early surge in relation to when AF arrived???

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you EnglishDame!

I'm sort of spinning and figuring out everything I can do. I know objectively it's only a 20% shot, but it looked like I didn't have to worry about those odds myself! I'm trying not to feel defeated by this and thinking about the things that are opened in this next month of TTC (2 or 3 times I can let myself have one beer; more time to lift weights 2 weeks from now; found out DH was adding flax to his cereal so I CUT THAT OUT, DD will be 15 months which will please atomic more than her being 14 months haha).

I'm just concerned it's something wrong with me still. Wr had some awesome things I thought would work well for this last month (DH had some high ass T, I can tell you that) but after ovulation my DD got an ear infection so I went from nursing her 3x a day to like 5 or 6x again, so maybe the egg DID fertilize but my body thought shit was going down?

I'm weaning her down to 2x a day so hopefully that can only help too?

I can't stop thinking >_<

I guarantee you though - I have had that happen while nursing. My kids were perpetually doing stuff like that, I'd think I had them mostly off boob and then something would happen and I'd be like Gandalf getting sucked back down by the Balrog and I'd be nursing 200 times a day again. And I did get preggo that way. The month I got pregnant with my 5th child, my 4th had been so sick he was in the hospital and I nursed him constantly for about a week straight but I still got pregnant that month! :)

[atomic sagebrush]

As a bump -- does acupuncture sway blue? I have access to legit, cheap acupuncture and am considering doing it just to be safe/make me feel like I'm doing something. The only info I could find on here is mostly in HT posts, and in one failed blue sway :nails:

Also I had weaned off wheatgrass supps maybe 2-3 months ago -- could that have affected anything?

I want you to stay off the wheatgrass supps. I'm pretty convinced that they're making opposites for us.

I have had a LOT of pink swayers do acupuncture and get blue opposites. A whole lot. I do think that it sways blue, and I don't necessarily believe in it per se, but the idea that you have a quiet moment where someone else is doing something for you - I think that may send some signal to your body even if it's all a bunch of hooey. And if it isn't a bunch of hooey, then even better because it will boost your fertility in addition.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes to acupuncture!!! I believe that was a contributing factor with my DS3. Also Yoga and constantly meddling with my sway! Poor Atomic! She's a saint for dealing with me back then!

I cannot say anything about wheatgrass, but green tea was a big factor with my DS1 and DS2.

🤞🏻[emoji170]


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Aww, no you were no trouble at all and you have helped me sooo much over the years you have paid me back 10000 times over. :heart:

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you everyone -- and XX, I forgot you did acupuncture and yoga! I'm going to do both for sure (I already do the latter!). I've been drinking black tea but might try weaning down to green tea. I always get a weird soapy taste from green tea thougj, almost like I do for cilantro!

And you're all right it's an odds game; I'm just shook from how I was getting pregnant against all odds FOUR times in a row! Then conditions are perfect and I don't get pregnant! Gah!

Honestly, I'm kinda over the green tea too. I am just getting really, really skeptical of the phytoestrogen things because a huge % of the opposites were in people who were really hitting them hard.

I have personally got boys drinking tons of black tea so while I know it's all very unscientific I am still good with you guys using that.

[atomic sagebrush]

Too much sex only sways pink when the fertile window isn't open. If it is, it's all good. I only know of one couple who had tons of sex at O and got a girl and they have girls already.

[Burakoam]

Had wheatgrass in lots of my drinks i was drinking on HE trying to conceive baby#4..which resulted in DD4..so while we may never know what the pushing factor was in my opposite id say that if its looking like wheatgrass is causing opposites for blue swayers, and i have that in common too, i would definitely gtfo of that

[Throwaway_panther]

I"m so sorry I keep seeing this go by right when I'm juggling 10 other things.

I know it's really hard when it has happened easily in the past but some months just aren't THE month. Honestly, it's such a miraculous thing that happens that the miracle is not that it doesn't work out when it doesn't, but that it does as often as it does (not even sure that makes sense LOL)

Let's not worry about your sway. Let's look at this as God/the universe's way of making sure you didn't fall pregnant in a month that wasn't right for some reason that only they know. For all we know, this means you will only have a BETTER sway the next time through.

When was the early surge in relation to when AF arrived???

Suspected Ovulation was at CD18, while AF started on CD 30. In all the months I've been tracking, AF has started on CD 30 or 31 pretty regularly unless a cycle from a loss, but suspected O has been pretty consistently CD 20 or 21.

[Throwaway_panther]

I guarantee you though - I have had that happen while nursing. My kids were perpetually doing stuff like that, I'd think I had them mostly off boob and then something would happen and I'd be like Gandalf getting sucked back down by the Balrog and I'd be nursing 200 times a day again. And I did get preggo that way. The month I got pregnant with my 5th child, my 4th had been so sick he was in the hospital and I nursed him constantly for about a week straight but I still got pregnant that month! :)

Ahhh, but that's when you got your girl! Lol! Though I'm sorry your son was so sick!

Yeah, I'm sure you're right on just it wasn't the month. I got pregnant three times accidentally while nursing way more, way consistently, so it must have been odds, just not the month, etc.

Good to hear about acupuncture and green tea! And I've been off wheatgrass supps maybe since April/May, so hopefully this extra month off will only help too?

Now I'm just anxious because I've had a little more beer than before (like 1.5 craft beers this past weekend and likely next weekend, when I was MAYBE 1 a month before) and wasn't able to snack as regularly this last weekend because of traveling (no skipped meals or anything and emphasis on protein + carb). DH was on plane too -- do I need to worry about the radiation and sperm?!

[atomic sagebrush]

I was hoping you wouldn't notice the gender part LOL. Please try to remember that in that same time period I had a LOT of other things going on that would have swayed pink, my point was not that, my point was, it is possible to get pregnant even when the baby has picked up the pace with nursing again.

I wouldn't worry about any of those things. While there is an alteration in the gender offspring of some pilots and astronauts it was the ones exposed to g-forces and this was day in, day out. Not a guy who went on a plane one time. And the craft beers actually have a lot of good stuff in them anyway.

[atomic sagebrush]

Suspected Ovulation was at CD18, while AF started on CD 30. In all the months I've been tracking, AF has started on CD 30 or 31 pretty regularly unless a cycle from a loss, but suspected O has been pretty consistently CD 20 or 21.

So actually possibly a better LP. This may be a good sign. :) This may not have been the month, but things may be moving in a better direction for future months.

[Burakoam]

Too much sex only sways pink when the fertile window isn't open. If it is, it's all good. I only know of one couple who had tons of sex at O and got a girl and they have girls already.

And me LOL..DD3 was a fertile period lots of sex baby. BUT before fertile window we hadnt had sex in over a week so...ive always imagined that it was the first batch that made her, where lots of her siblings were already dead and gone except for her awesome self and so here she is :)

[Throwaway_panther]

What about DH being sick? He just said he feels under the weather this morning, abd I'm due to O this coming weekend D:

[Burakoam]

id wait for someone else or atomic to verify but i believe the only thing that affects sways is antibiotic usage and that would help blue not hurt it...

[atomic sagebrush]

What about DH being sick? He just said he feels under the weather this morning, abd I'm due to O this coming weekend D:

Unsatisfying answer - it depends.

while technically I can imagine a high fever for days may possibly sway pink for hubbies, overall, people conceive when they're sick all the time and I suspect it has to be a major illness that lasts for more than a day or two. But, use your judgement - if you will live 1000 lifetimes of regret if you try and get an opposite, skip the month.

[Throwaway_panther]

Unsatisfying answer - it depends.

while technically I can imagine a high fever for days may possibly sway pink for hubbies, overall, people conceive when they're sick all the time and I suspect it has to be a major illness that lasts for more than a day or two. But, use your judgement - if you will live 1000 lifetimes of regret if you try and get an opposite, skip the month.

He popped a fever of 101.5 today, so I'm hoping it doesn't last another day. But fever or bug for a day or two is sort of iffy then? I'm on CD 12. Not trying this month would mean I'd lose my under 2 year gap I was so desperate for, and the idea of abstaining after not getting pregnant last month seems heartbreaking.

I mean, is it that an illness would kill only Y sperm? Or just reduce quality? If he's still up for 3x at O, if there's less sperm, that's still a lot of sperm for capacitation right? Would an otherwise stronger sway on both our parts be ok, or is him having a high body temp for a day or two during this cycle equal to smoking or low calories in terms of sway hurtles?

[Burakoam]

I am thinking the idea behind fevers = pink is the idea that hot baths consistently/frequently also sway pink? regardless she makes a good point. You just sort of have to roll with the dice.... worst case scenario if we dont have any sway results on Acetaminophen and he still has a fever this weekend it may help to keep his fever down, negating the whole 'core body temp is hot, lots of the sperm dead/dying' stuff

id say only IF we dont have the info that it would only further sway pink... i dont follow up or study much anymore so i am not sure if it sways blue or pink or neutral

[Throwaway_panther]

He's gone up to 102.6 so not only am I now worried about this bug, I don't see how his sperm health could recover by next week OR we be able to keep up EoD while he's sick.

I'm so sick of this shit getting in the way. I've waited TWO years for this and I still don't have my son in my arms. If everything is perfect in September, what if I don't get pregnant and regret not gaving tried this month? And if everything worked out and I got my boy by falling pregnant then, I'd be due around my DD's bday...

[XXforhubby]

(((Hugs))) If it's not one thing it's another! I understand your frustration- this type of stuff seems to happen when TTCing and it's enough to drive you mad!! Im not sure you want to BD with him as sick as he his. If he's up for it you could try, but I worry you won't be able to get 3 attempts in, let alone be able to do EOD. I'd hate for you to start and end up with only one attempt. I see both sides though. Maybe flip a coin and do what it says? I did this my BFP cycle because I wasn't sure I wanted to even try. I was just stressed to the max with my DS2 and fed up with my DH going back and forth all of the time. I tell ya, what these men put us through!

Hang in there sweetie! I wish I could just wave a magic wand and make it be so!


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[Throwaway_panther]

Thank you guys. Ugh, I'm just in a definite "I NEED TO CONTROL EVERYTHING MODE."

Hubby's fever broke overnight so he was only that high for maybe 12 hours, and I'm pumping him with meds, chicken soup and rest. I'm not due to O until a minimum CD 18 unless things really change (I'm now CD 13), so he'd definitely be good for 3 attempts by that time. Based on him puking last night, I think this is some viral thing he caught that's hopefully just a 48 hour thing. And knowing him, he'd want sex by tomorrow anyway, which would be a three day span from last BDing.

If I sound selfish and single minded here... it's because I am lol. I am worried about him, but glad the fever broke. But now I'm left worrying if it was too close to O for the sperm to be top.

Pros of trying this month:
If successful, May baby instead of birthday sharing with DD
If successful, less than 2 year gap which I really wanted
Not having another depressing month of a period
DH will have higher T from sporting tournament

Cons of trying this month:
Possibly affected sperm
May sway pink?
No guarantee of conception

Pros of waiting until September cycle:
Healthier sperm
DD is now 16 months
Chance to lift more since my job will be done
Chance to do more fertility acupuncture
Fall "boy" month (despite DD also being conceived in Sept)
All stupid OWT point boy (even those godforsaken biorhythms lol)
More time on diet (since I was nervous from two days in August when I couldn't snack as much and walked a ton)

Cons of waiting until September:
Another month of me being crazy
No guarantee of conception, pushing my TTC time longer which is a BIG deal to me
No more under 2 year gap I wanted
Pregnancy and EDD lining up with DD's, which makes me uncomfortable for a lot of reasons

I mean, this all points to September, right? But AGGGGHHHH

ETA: I'm on a loss forum and asked about flu/virus affecting conception, and someone on there had one attempt at 0-1 and is pregnant with a boy, so now I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK. A lot of people pointed out that with a roughly 75 day sperm life cycle, this 24-48 hours is unlikely to affect this batch as much as I may think?

ETAx2: DH temp went up again, to 100.2 :(

[Burakoam]

Panther with everything you have been through and everything you have waited for i think you should try this month regardless. The age gap is important to you and probably your absolute biggest thing next to NOT having them born around DD's birthday. Those are big things. only secondary to of course you having your boy.. so if its really Gender > 2 year age gap > pref not to have him born in june> everything else..then you need to try this month. You have done your diet and your work, so gender is a high probability if you conceive, you would have your age gap and born just before june.

I worry the stress of stressing over DD's conception month and what that means would sway pink for you next month, honestly, and may bring to fruition the exact thing you fear. then you will beat yourself up the rest of your life that you didnt try this month out of fear when the fear was so much worse next month.

thats a mouth full. heh.

[atomic sagebrush]

It's not that it would kill Y sperm (the whole "Y sperm are fragile" has been debunked as part of Shettles' mistake) but that it would kill ALL sperm thus making lower batches.

I"m so sorry because I know this isn't what you probably are hoping me to say but I'd skip it. I was hoping he'd feel bad for a day and then recover but the temp has gone up and up and I just don't have a good vibe (sometimes this is more art, than science).

Additionally I do believe ibuprofen and acetominophen sway pink - sparse data on that, but it's what everyone always said and I've seen some anecdoctal evidence that seemed to indicate there may be something to it.

Remember (re the person on the other board) that none of these things in isolation is THE reason. People have gotten boys while ill, of course, just like they've gotten boys with closer age gaps and while breastfeeding and etc etc etc all the stuff we've talked about before. None of it's a guarantee, it's about wanting to be in with the best attempt I can give you and I just have a gut instinct for you to wait. But, gut instincts are not worth anything in the final analysis, and like Burk says, the age gap seems very important to you and like I've said in the past, you do have what I consider a great natural chance at a boy fever or not, so, there's that angle as well.

Good luck and blue dust comin at ya, if not for this month, then soon. :)

[Throwaway_panther]

The temp didn't go up and up, fyi! It went down and when it went back up it was lower but was still technically a fever on day 2. And only 2 days of drugs, and not much of it. He's completely fine now.

I feel like at this point it's almost like waiting until next month is better because of how much good could come from that month, but the stripping of confidence knowing that I can't count on just falling pregnant is making me feel like "waiting" could be a reckless move. But then, could charging ahead be reckless as well? Probably, with an illness (which is completely gone by this point) in a guy who never gets sick.

I worry about the future things though. DH could be at work forever next month (which happens often); I could not fall pregnant and really fuck me up mentally with my age gap desire. What if I get sick or DD teethes?! I REALLY don't like the idea of repeating the same timing of pregnancy as I did with DD. Having to hide a pregnancy around the holidays was really brutal with her.

And DH isn't getting any younger. My next cycle would be our last cycle with him at 36.

Is there any benefit if I were to take soy isoflavones next cycle to move up ovulation so I'm not waiting until the end of September? And help my LP further?

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok, I read he's sick and then 101 and then 102 - my point is just, it's not that he spiked a 99 degree fever for 24 hours and then nothing, he did actually have a legit fever.

You're right that it is ALWAYS something, and if he'll be working a lot next month then that changes the dynamic yet again. I don't have the answer here - now, I do know that his age is irrelevant and lots of the guys on here got boys at much older ages. Age is a gradual concern, there is NO difference between today and 2 months from today. It's only slowly over time that things change and not suddenly because anyone had a birthday.

I wouldn't suggest the soy in any event and not only that, you cannot take that with your thyroid. no way, no how. There is no advantage to it anyway - not for your sway, not for your fertility, and not for getting pregnant faster (because what invariably seems to happen is that the soy makes your cycle go weird and it gets longer, not shorter!)

[Throwaway_panther]

I guess as a final follow up -- do I need to worry about his sperm count next month from this fever? If it's a roughly 72 day life cycle, is another month enough time to kick those numbers back up? We're doing EOD, occasional 3 day gap.

[hopetoswaypink]

I am a bit confused about husbands having fevers! Mine had a fever this month 39C /102F for 3 days. I am swaying pink but I'm 41 so more worried about just not getting pregnant. I thought fevers affected sperm in the following 3 cycles, not the current cycle when the sperm is already made?

[Throwaway_panther]

I found these when researching it:

The Sperm Cycle - I Got a Fever and the Only Prescription is?? - Texas Fertility Center (http://txfertility.com/the-sperm-cycle-i-got-a-fever-and-the-only-prescription-is/)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14507826

https://community.babycenter.com/post/a7974975/all_about_sperm

The consensus seems to be that fevers for sure affect sperm count, and even sperm health, but it varies and is not necessarily impacted in the present -- so now I'm even more conflicted, since the sperm issues might not be now but in the coming cycles (though not necessarily next month). I'm due to get my surge tomorrow or so based on OPKs, and I just had DH release outside of me yesterday since I wanted to play it safe since I thought we were skipping this month.

I know these's no crystal ball, but this really seems like a possible Catch 22. Waiting 3 months to TTC is out of the question.

[atomic sagebrush]

I guess as a final follow up -- do I need to worry about his sperm count next month from this fever? If it's a roughly 72 day life cycle, is another month enough time to kick those numbers back up? We're doing EOD, occasional 3 day gap.

I just don't have the data. I see below you've read all the same stuff I have and the simple fact is no one really knows, it may even be different due to the various effects of viruses, etc, and by individual.

If you can't wait 3 months, you can't wait 3 months. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many couples with all/mostly boys whose husbands went 3 months ever without being sick.

[atomic sagebrush]

I am a bit confused about husbands having fevers! Mine had a fever this month 39C /102F for 3 days. I am swaying pink but I'm 41 so more worried about just not getting pregnant. I thought fevers affected sperm in the following 3 cycles, not the current cycle when the sperm is already made?

You can't wait as I already mentioned because time is not our friend here. Panther has time to wait and she's swaying blue. I really urge you to stop worrying about this, because it is one of those pointless things that doesn't help anything and plagues pink swayers. The worrying feels like you're doing something to fix a problem that inherently is unfixable and you have to just step out in faith and TTC because in the end, worrying about whether you're going to conceive or not does nothing to make it happen and only harms your sway.

[meoab]

Good luck PT. Just keep doing your excercises and have hearty food! You will get pregnant and be over the moon..I know how hard this mentally can be. Dont think any month feels good as long as you feel good abour your effort! There are atleast four women I know who are expecting boys. Believe me they didnt put as much effort as we do. Most of them took their vitamins and didnt care about calories. Had their meat and vegetables, changed their diet and went for it.
We keep delaying it out of fear. Fear for not putting enough effort in a specific month or DH's state.

[Throwaway_panther]

Good luck PT. Just keep doing your excercises and have hearty food! You will get pregnant and be over the moon..I know how hard this mentally can be. Dont think any month feels good as long as you feel good abour your effort! There are atleast four women I know who are expecting boys. Believe me they didnt put as much effort as we do. Most of them took their vitamins and didnt care about calories. Had their meat and vegetables, changed their diet and went for it.
We keep delaying it out of fear. Fear for not putting enough effort in a specific month or DH's state.

Thank you, I really appreciate this! It's something I've rationalized, too, especially knowing how extreme I was before my DD and how long I've been HE.

[Throwaway_panther]

Looks like we're out this month, too :(

I'm starting to get nervous. How was it so easy to get pregnant under terrible conditions (including with DD!) and now I'm better and nothing??

[XXforhubby]

(((Huge Hugs))) I'm so sorry TP [emoji20]. I view improving fertility like turning an ocean liner- it takes some time. For whatever reason, the metabolic changes as of late we're harder on your body than the conditions that led to your DD. Just know it WILL happen for you! Don't give up and keep up the good work you've been doing! Take comfort in that you can still get a DS with it taking awhile to conceive- my DS3 took 8 long months of me improving my fertility. I do believe that acupuncture and Yoga helped me. Yoga more so for keeping me calm and maintaining a healthy perspective (I was beginning to self destruct).

Vent away- don't keep it in-we're here for you!


[emoji170]8/2010 [emoji170]6/2013 [emoji170]11/2015 [emoji170]
[emoji178]Baby Girl [emoji254]EDD 9/30/2017 [emoji178]

https://lmtm.lilypie.com/kIlmm5.png (https://lilypie.com)

[atomic sagebrush]

Don't get nervous. Getting nervous isn't warranted. We know that you had the thyroid situation going on before and that is the number one mystery thing that prohibits conception. So while I know it's tough, in your mind, hit the "reset" button and treat this as Month One, a fresh start. You weren't really trying to conceive before, now you are. It's going to be ok, you WILL get pregnant, and it will happen sooner rather than later.

[Throwaway_panther]

This ended up being for sure a chemical :( Two days of super faint tests this late in the game made me expect a loss. Heavy spotting now (incidentally after acupuncture today).

Do I need to be pursuing an RE? I just learned about balanced translocation -- it would explain DD's success. I know progesterone is such a mixed bag, but my LP keeps being around 11 days. Do I need to drop the 1-2 nursing sessions with my DD still?

[atomic sagebrush]

You do not need to stop nursing, but be aware if you go to an RE they will tell you to stop nursing.

Translocations are possible but not the first place my head goes. We haven't had many on here. The thyroid thing is the most likely cause (apart from sheer bad luck).

11 day LP is still enough to conceive with - that having been said, it's not me who has to go through all this and if the progesterone feels like something to try, then it's a possibility.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh and I'm really sorry...I know you've been through the wringer and I'm so sorry this has happened.

[MiaMelb]

I'm sorry you're having such a tough month, this ttc can be such a rollercoaster even when things are straight forward and then adding in extra complications can really let doubt creep in. It's hard to clear the slate and reset. Keep your chin up:bluecheer::bluecheer::bluecheer: sending you positive thoughts for next cycle. Need some blue cheers in our lives.

[Throwaway_panther]

A psychic at a ren fest today said she never sees me giving birth to a boy, but I will become pregnant "at any time now."

I knooow this is BS... right? But what if I'm miscarrying all these boys because something IS preventing me from carrying them?!

Also should I throw in n CoQ10? Should DH? How much??

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, it's BS! I promise.

NO ONE can't carry boys. There is a rare situation that I'm sure you're aware of, where half the time, a woman can't carry the boys she conceives - but it's only half the time and you'd have some sort of family history. So much more is known now than even just a decade or two ago - it's a lot less likely that your family wouldn't have some knowledge that something was amiss than it was in the 70's and 80's, for example. It doesn't mean it's impossible and by all means, while genetic testing is quite a lot of money if it saves you stress and heartache it may be worth it.

I honestly don't think the Coq is doing anything. I was using it for a while, it really didn't seem to be helping, and while I do still give it to some people just in case, it is expensive. If you want to try it, you can take 200 mg for yourself, 100 mg for your husband.

[Throwaway_panther]

Yes, it's BS! I promise.

NO ONE can't carry boys. There is a rare situation that I'm sure you're aware of, where half the time, a woman can't carry the boys she conceives - but it's only half the time and you'd have some sort of family history. So much more is known now than even just a decade or two ago - it's a lot less likely that your family wouldn't have some knowledge that something was amiss than it was in the 70's and 80's, for example. It doesn't mean it's impossible and by all means, while genetic testing is quite a lot of money if it saves you stress and heartache it may be worth it.

I honestly don't think the Coq is doing anything. I was using it for a while, it really didn't seem to be helping, and while I do still give it to some people just in case, it is expensive. If you want to try it, you can take 200 mg for yourself, 100 mg for your husband.

Thank you. It's so dumb, but that reassurance helps. I'm never doing a damn tarot reading again!

The rare boy carrying thing though... I think I've mentioned before, but my whole generation of cousins on my mom's side are girls except 2 (who were from uncles, not aunts). Several miscarriages for many and otherwise GIRLS. Literally 88% of my generation in the family is female!

But several of those cousins have had boys -- though one I know had IUI for two of hers. This means they're can't be a genetic thing, right? Especially since I know my husband isn't bringing that to the table since he's from a BBBG family descended from a very evenly mixed family before him.

I got a referall to a fertility doc anyway, so I'll meet just to cross off other things.

I'm sorry I'm asking pretty asinine questions. I feel really out of sorts from yet another loss and that stupid reading. Sometimes I feel like the last two years has been so hard I'm just wishing my life away to get to the "happy" -- my boy.

[Throwaway_panther]

My bleeding for this CP was really light and short not only compared to my other losses but also just to my period. Should I be concerned about lining issues? I finally got a BFN today after the really light BFPs over the last few days, so this doesn't look like any hopeful situatuon with a vanishing twin or anything, but I didn't even have any cramping and still had early preg symptoms.

[Burakoam]

your tests no longer have lines right panther? so the probability of still being pregnant isnt there?

Light bleeding with a loss would suggest lining issue to me

[Throwaway_panther]

Yeah lines went neg, so my desperate, "VANISHING TWIN?" is pretty moot. Never suspected lining either until this weird bleed.

We'll figure it out either way! I moved FAST on this. Just saw an RE today and had a ton of things tested. Have a hysteroscopy next week.

[4blue2pink]

so sad to read this TP :( i am glad your RE has tested for lots of things today which you can then either fix or tick off the list. ignore the psychic!! all women are capable of carrying both genders, i spent 4 years crushed and completely convinced i was defective and couldn't successfully carry a girl after the doctor who dealt with my baby girl mid pregnancy loss made a comment along those lines.. please dont do that to yourself by allowing your mind to go there and believe that (easier said than done i know) whatever this is it is not your body rejecting babies because they are male.

i really hope you get some answers from all your tests so that you can plan the best route forward :heart:

[Would luv a son3]

Hi TP!,
I'm not sure if this will hurt you or help you but I'm hoping it will help. My sister went through the same exact thing as you except she didn't have a living child at the time. She kept having MC's (about 5 total) she ended up seeing an RE did 4 or 5 rounds of failed IUI's and I think another MC until her and her husband finally decided to do IVF. Well thank god she did cause the baby took and she now has a very happy healthy 15 month old boy. Not sure how or why the IVF helped but we are just so glad it all worked out. :o

[Throwaway_panther]

Hi TP!,
I'm not sure if this will hurt you or help you but I'm hoping it will help. My sister went through the same exact thing as you except she didn't have a living child at the time. She kept having MC's (about 5 total) she ended up seeing an RE did 4 or 5 rounds of failed IUI's and I think another MC until her and her husband finally decided to do IVF. Well thank god she did cause the baby took and she now has a very happy healthy 15 month old boy. Not sure how or why the IVF helped but we are just so glad it all worked out. :o

Do you know if she ever figured out why the MCs were happening?

[Would luv a son3]

They really weren't sure but her RE said that he thinks she had some form of PCOS. So I'm guessing "skinny PCOS"? Cause she wansnt over weight but she did have some symptoms. I can ask her more. If there are any specific questions you have let me know and I'll ask her for you.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes exactly - if the cousins have had a bunch of boys, it's very unlikely. This would be ALL over the mothers side. It cannot be coming from the dad's side, since it's linked to the X chromosome, and if there was something, he would have it (since males have only one X chromosome)

Also, I didn't want to mention this in the thread and apologies if it sounds harsh, but one of the women who was asking about a psychic a few years back, that you commented in recently, sadly passed away a couple of years ago. The psychics couldn't see that coming, didn't warn her, didn't tell her to see a doctor, nope. They were all full of advice about the gender of her baby but could not see that she had an underlying very serious illness that later killed her. So please put zero stock into the advice and guidelines of psychics even the ones that are purported to be real.

[atomic sagebrush]

My bleeding for this CP was really light and short not only compared to my other losses but also just to my period. Should I be concerned about lining issues? I finally got a BFN today after the really light BFPs over the last few days, so this doesn't look like any hopeful situatuon with a vanishing twin or anything, but I didn't even have any cramping and still had early preg symptoms.

Everyone worries about lining but hardly anyone has ever had a legitimate lining issue.

I see quite a lot of chemicals with very light bleeding and at least one study has found this is a variation on how chemicals occur for some. Miscarriage in the Early Weeks (http://www.womens-health.co.uk/miscarriage-in-the-early-weeks.html) It may be that something hormonal keeps the entire lining from coming off until the following month (which I have heard speculation that this may be part of the whole "improved fertility" factor - it may be that your lining is actually great and even better next month because of the chemical.) Total speculation, but I have seen plenty of very light bleeds after chemicals that went on to get pregnant within 1-3 months after, no lining issues at all.

[Throwaway_panther]

UPDATE:

So after multiple procedures today, we discovered I did have some retained tissue as well as a uterine polyp. We don't know yet if it's placental tissue from my DD or retained from one of the early losses, but I'm scheduled for outpatient procedure in two days to remove it.

All other testing so far has been fine (it'll take weeks for the genetic stuff to get back), including prolactin so I will keep nursing DD before bed as I have until she seems more done!

It's slightly hopeful that the tissue and polyp could have been contributing -- both were right at the entrance of my uterus.

My question remains: I had to take two-three motrin today before the procedure, and the ultrasound did find a larger left follicle suggesting that's where I'll ovulate (though there were others slightly smaller on the right as well). Should I worry about trying this cycle? Doc said I'm fine to try after bleeding stops from procedure, and I could potentially catch the egg this month still.

I AM on antibiotics from the procedures which I know is more of an old school sway tactic, but there it is. Also doing weekly acupuncture, etc. Discovered my weight despite trying not to know it after all these months and it's much higher than I'm comfortable with :( Like highest end of healthy bmi, which is making me extremely anxious. Now will be the huge battle of me staying stable for a boy at this weight and desperately wanting to diet.

[XXforhubby]

Hang in there sweetie! I know you're dealing with a potential relapse. Let your acupuncturist know before your next appointment. I kid you not, they can help with anxiety. I was a HOT mess the cycle before I conceived. While I don't struggle with an eating disorder, my struggle comes from my anxiety causing me to control things and everyone to an emotionally abusive end [emoji20]. I mean I become viscous. I hate it. I try to avoid it all all costs. Luckily my kids are spared but it's not healthy for my DH. Fortunately he's made of steal. Anyway, my point is let them know- they can help. It's not a magic bullet but it may be enough for you to be able to contain it.

I'm praying for you!


[emoji170]8/2010 [emoji170]6/2013 [emoji170]11/2015 [emoji170]
[emoji178]Baby Girl [emoji254]EDD 9/30/2017 [emoji178]

https://lmtm.lilypie.com/kIlmm5.png (https://lilypie.com)

[MiaMelb]

Thinking of you TP, you are so strong. My fingers are crossed for you this cycle.

[Throwaway_panther]

Thank you guys. I sure haven't been feeling strong!!

Oh XX, I relate so, so much. I have so much empathy and understanding for you. We sound insanely similar in that regard. I will bring it up with her next time -- although she definitely has noticed what a hot mess I am already lol!

[XXforhubby]

Hang in there! I know you can do this! I believe your desire for a son is much stronger. You just have to believe that and refocus the desire to control things to something outside of yourself. Maybe relocating the controlling urge will help. It works for me most of the time. I relocate mine when it happens to cleaning/organizing my house. My kids have learned to leave mommy alone or help out. At least it's productive instead of destructive. This is just a part of who we are. Give it a try.

(((Hugest Hugs)))


[emoji170]8/2010 [emoji170]6/2013 [emoji170]11/2015 [emoji170]
[emoji178]Baby Girl [emoji254]EDD 9/30/2017 [emoji178]

https://lmtm.lilypie.com/kIlmm5.png (https://lilypie.com)

[Throwaway_panther]

Hang in there! I know you can do this! I believe your desire for a son is much stronger. You just have to believe that and refocus the desire to control things to something outside of yourself. Maybe relocating the controlling urge will help. It works for me most of the time. I relocate mine when it happens to cleaning/organizing my house. My kids have learned to leave mommy alone or help out. At least it's productive instead of destructive. This is just a part of who we are. Give it a try.

(((Hugest Hugs)))


[emoji170]8/2010 [emoji170]6/2013 [emoji170]11/2015 [emoji170]
[emoji178]Baby Girl [emoji254]EDD 9/30/2017 [emoji178]

https://lmtm.lilypie.com/kIlmm5.png (https://lilypie.com)

Haha, I've already been simultaneously organizing our closet and creating a playroom for DD!

Definitely trying to keep the faith and combat the fears and failures here. I'm just so desperate for things to go my way finally!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes that's great news - there is something going on and there is something that can be fixed.

I think you should try. I think you need to try for your sanity and the fact is none of us know how anything sways at the end of it all.

[Throwaway_panther]

Thank you atomic, that really helps.

Procedure went well today so I'm all squeaky clean and ready to go once the bleeding stops. It's barely just spotting, so hopefully we'll be able to DTD soon ;)

[4blue2pink]

so glad they found something they could act on and make right for you TP hang in there with the weight you have worked so hard on HE and remember its not forever its to get you to your baby boy :heart:

[Throwaway_panther]

Looks like I'm about to have another chemical :(

[MiaMelb]

Looks like I'm about to have another chemical :(:SS:

[Pinklaundryplease]

Just throwing this out there, I have not read all previous posts, and I don’t know you, so I apologize if this is old news... but I had three chemical pregnancies. Two of which I know had to be due to a weakened immune system. I had been fighting about a hundred flat warts on my face while trying to conceive, (about a year) after burning them four times, and trying homeopathic gels, and not getting pregnant my mother suggested I try to do a liver cleanse to see if it would help my immune system recognize the warts. I took liver cleanse herbs, and garlic, ( and more recently diatomatious earth) to try and clean my liver and kill any bacteria, viruses, or parasites. I got pregnant ( with a boy, but I was also eating high nutrient Whole Foods to go with the liver cleanse) the cycle after the cleanse.

I do know from your posts that you are a go getter, a lot like myself, bound and determined to accomplish goals. I am assuming you have probably studied about this or had much advice given to you from atomic. I just thought I would share my experience for whatever it is worth.

Oh, and the warts went away immediately after the cleanse too. Thank goodness!
And of course best wishes!!

[Throwaway_panther]

I don't seem to have any immunity issues based on testing and eat a lot of garlic and quality foods already, so not sure if that would make a difference, but thank you, I do appreciate the input.

My acupuncturist said I feel pregnant to her still, but tests are so faint. I wish my RE had returned my calls.

Not looking forward to Femara. I wish we could just do IVF with PGD but DH and I have gotten into fights every time I bring it up...

[Pinklaundryplease]

I have considered IVF PGD too, and I can’t get past the awful feeling I would get throwing away embryos, because I can only have one more baby. Otherwise, I think the idea sounds great... expensive... but it would be worth it.

I get the whole fighting with the husband issue. I mention six kids and he gets an upset stomach. :D even talking about swaying drives him nuts because he doesn’t want me to get my hopes up. Guess I can’t blame him, poor guy has to live with my emotions over the whole gender desire thing.

I hope you ARE Still pregnant. And things finally go your way. Good luck.

[Throwaway_panther]

All of our testing has come back normal. I feel cursed.

[ksmom]

I'm glad your tests are normal but at the same time I understand the frustration. I was in a similar situation last year with three losses and completely normal tests (and we had the whole shebang done, including a very pricey genetic screening the RE recommended). I don't really know what to say other than I'm sorry and I hope you're able to conceive a sticky baby soon. Hugs!

[maximbella]

Throwaway, just wanted to send hugs... Thinking of you! [emoji170]


https://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/24dd4d

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[atomic sagebrush]

I swear people don't understand this but it's almost worse when they don't find anything than when they do. :/

I'm so sorry. I know it's hard right now but it's good news. We don't want there to be a problem, we want everything to be perfect and normal and then we've just had some bad luck. :heart:

This will happen.

[Throwaway_panther]

Yeah, I am the same. At least if we found an issue, we'd know what we're up against. Now...

Karotyping and egg quality seems to point to this not being anything wrong with the eggs, but something wrong with me. I was so hopeful after that surgery. I am fully miscarrying now though so yet another loss in my heart.

[atomic sagebrush]

I"m so sorry. I don't even have the words.

[MiaMelb]

My heart is so sad for you TP.

[Ladynic]

I'm sorry this is happening to you Throwaway_Panther

[DreamingRainbow]

Throwaway_panther I'm sorry. Life can be so cruel x

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Throwaway_panther]

We got my husband's semen analysis -- that I pushed for -- back.

It looks like it's all been him. And boy does he ever have some girl sperm...

[XXforhubby]

Well at least we have some answers!


[emoji170]8/2010 [emoji170]6/2013 [emoji170]11/2015 [emoji170]
[emoji178]10/2017[emoji178]

[emoji254]Thank you Gender Dreaming for our precious little girl![emoji254]

[Throwaway_panther]

I just am sitting here baffled. If I hadn't pushed for this analysis myself, I'd have just been thrown on drugs.

But if anything, I'm even sadder. I've been working so hard and feeling so depressed, and it looks like it might not even be me.

His count is 23.9 million, though he apparently missed the cup (... sigh), so we're going to do another SA again with a condom to be more accurate. That high fever from August is still in the back of my head, too. Viscosity and aglutination are both abnormal at 3. Motility is 65%, but of that 65% 45% are non progressive.

Specifically being told we'd have trouble conceiving. So wtf that we have been, even when not trying?

But then his morphology is 14%... but of all the 85 sperm that were wonky, they all had head issues prompting further analysis for a possible genetic or chromosomal issue.

So I'm just at a loss. I feel sad... sad I can't control this, sad I've spent SO much time swaying and stressing for something that truly has been fruitless.

Before DD, DH was smoking, depressed. I was starving myself, overexercising and subsisting on coffee and alcohol. Perfect baby first try -- and I spent so much time hating life because she wasn't the boy I wanted.

Now I eat well, do yoga and acupuncture, take a shitton if supplements, DH is the healthiest he's ever been between diet, exercise, supplements and his vitals... and for what?

I just can't believe the hand I keep getting dealt. Did two years really make that much of a difference for his sperm age? Studies keep saying over 35 matters, but holy hell... his sperm has some real issues.

I was still desperately looking for hope that we could try naturally. Now it looks like IVF really is our only option.

[XXforhubby]

Hang in there sweetie! That is a hard blow and really makes you wonder! I’m hopeful that a repeat SA will give a much clearer picture. Let’s not discredit what his high fever may have caused, either. When my DH has his SA done back when we were trying for our 3rd child, they made him skip a month before they would check his sperm after being sick.

I know it feels like everything is gaining up on you. It’s hard to not take it personally, but please don’t! Shit like this happens and while it sucks, don’t beat yourself up over it. You’re doing the best you can and have been! Both you and your DH have made some awesome gains and lifestyle choices that are worth celebrating! While it seems like your dream of having a son seems so far away, it may very well be right around the corner! All of this may have had to happen for him to come to you! While we don’t have a crystal ball, I can tell you it will happen. I don’t know when, but if I can get pregnant with an FSH of 45, and AMH of 0, you most certainly can get pregnant too! Let’s just suspend our thoughts for a bit until we can get a more accurate SA done, ok? Keep up the good work you’ve come so far to set yourself back now!

(((Huge Hugs)))


[emoji170]8/2010 [emoji170]6/2013 [emoji170]11/2015 [emoji170]
[emoji178]10/2017[emoji178]

[emoji254]Thank you Gender Dreaming for our precious little girl![emoji254]

[4blue2pink]

TP i am so glad they found this before you started on unnecessary drugs, i agree with XX the SA needs repeating and then you can compare the results, fingers crossed things will look better due to the fever being further out of his system and him not missing the cup!!

i must admit i really dont know anything about sperm stats but you said he seems to have lots of girl swimmers? i thought all men were pretty much 50/50? im sorry if this seems a really ignorant question

i really hope you can get answers and form a solid plan so that you can really move forward towards getting your boy, you know that things with you are all A-ok which is so positive even though it may not feel that way right now :heart: and fingers crossed this repeat SA brings a more accurate (and better) picture xx

[ksmom]

I'm sorry if you've already said this but has your DH had genetic testing done? I know you said you have but I don't know if that included your DH. My husband and I both had an extensive genetic panel called inherigen through genpath. It may be worth looking into if his SA came back with chromosomal abnormalities. It's $5k and insurance may not cover it but like I said, it may be worth doing since it looks at practically everything you can think of genetically speaking. I also agree with having the SA repeated and if it's still abnormal, asking about doing inherigen (if you haven't already).

[Throwaway_panther]

His sperm was abnormally viscous and agglutinized, plus messed up motility and barely normal count, so that's why I think of it as girl sperm :/

He did have a karyotype done but it came back normal!! Some loss sites did say that sometimes further testing needs to be done to find chromsomal stuff, like micro FISH? But in the meantime, I'm still waiting for almost 2 weeks to see my RE :(

Burokoam and I were talking, and she thinks an IUI might be the next best step maybe? They can do a wash for the better quality sperm I know, and it sways blue right? But is his sperm too far gone? :(

[DreamingRainbow]

Throwaway_panther I'm only new to this site but I really feel for you. Have absolutely no advice. I've had 3 mmc's and I'm hearing the problem may sit with me (not from medical team....yet). It's such a horrible, hard, gut wrenching time when all we want is to have and mind our babies! I truly wish you the best and that the results come back in your favour. Xx

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[atomic sagebrush]

Wait a minute here - he had normal chromosomes?

Ok I think we need to take a breath here and think this out. The sperm parameters you are describing (IMVHO) do not explain recurrent losses. he wouldn't be getting u pregnant again and again if this is a motility and semen consistency thing. I think you're mentioning that as an indicator that something else is probably wrong here chromosomally but it very well may not be. I am concerned for the same reason that Nuthin was, that there could be some sort of immune system interaction (almost like an allergy) between what he is bringing to the table (the agglutination can sometimes indicate he has antibodies against his own sperm)

I understand that you are under the care of an RE and everything. I get that. But Dr. B is the best that there is so just keep it in mind that you may want to do some investigation into the idea that this is some sort of autoimmune situation. This would also explain why you had no prob. your first pregnancy - sometimes couples have no issues with their first pregnancy and then in subsequent pregnancies your immune system is more worked up than it was. It's just something to keep in mind, a lead to keep in the back of your head to investigate along the way.

I think what nuthin was driving at is that she doesn't want you guys to proceed with IVF/PGD under the assumption that it's for sure chromosomal when it may not be because if it is immunological that could end up causing troubles even more so in an IVF round. FX.

[Burakoam]

I do think high viscosity for a males will ultimately be linked to more girl offspring just like if a woman's cervical mucus is thick it is more hostile to Sperm. I'd be curious to know in the grand scheme of things if it plays more of a part than myones aware of at the moment. Thin seminal fluid and thin cm = heavy boy conditions with right diet and excersise, thick for both equating to more girl offspring with a pink friendlier diet.. and the well mixed/blended gender families probably have a toss up of each partner having one or the other, maybe even at different times.

It's important to note that the kind of damage they are seeing is not from
His cold a month back IMO.

I am standing my ground that I don't care how or why it has been happening but your body is attacking the babies as intruders. The thing is it doesn't have to be the baby that has your uterus all upset and irritable. It can be your body responding to the antibodie issues in his sperm and if it angry and killing the sperm off for being weird, no matter what the reason is, it will also make your uterus too angry to let a healthy normal chromosome baby of either gender implant and stay. If your body senses 'danger' in your uterus it's not going to differentiate between the baby or the sperm. You are the first person to question an "infection" of some kind this last cycle because even after the progesterone was stopped your temp at one point spiked high enough you looked like you were about to develop a fever.

[Throwaway_panther]

We know I don't have the antibodies for sure since IGA, IGG and IGM were all tested, but his SA results still aren't all back so that'll be another wait. There is some research saying that these early results for DH ARE linked to losses as well as difficulty conceiving.

The infection part on my end, I'm wondering if that last spike in temp was the last try to save that embryo. My white blood cell count was noted as fine before too (remember, I had all my initial bloodwork done during that 4th loss!).

But now that I found a study showing specifically sons of formerly infertile couples have more issues conceiving, I'm banging my head against a wall. Yet his brother (who had to see an RE because they took over a year to conceieve, and also had two losses) did end up having 3 kids (BGB).

I told you guys the weird shit seems to happen to me! Now I guess it's rubbed off on DH!

[4blue2pink]

TP im in no position to offer real advice here i just truly hope you guys get to the bottom of this, i want nothing more than to see you get your boy :heart: you are one of just a few people on this site who i feel really understands the level of GD that i myself went through (although with the opposite gender) reading your posts helped me in feeling like i wasnt alone in how extreme my own GD was.

i dont know if this will be of any help but a friend of mine has 3 children with her partner GBG, however.. he was previously married for around 10 years to another lady i also know, they tried for years to get pregnant-nothing, had ALL the tests done, she was normal but they got told that he was completely 100% infertile, sperm count as bad as it gets type thing.
long story short..they divorce in the end and he meets my other friend, shortly after shes pregnant (NOT planned) baby 100% is his and they have gone on to have 2 more babies (all unplanned so defo no IVF or other treatments)

i have no idea exactly how this has happened but just thought id share since you mentioned formerly infertile couples.

i agree with waiting on the IVF until you have more answers, i know its the last thing you want to hear but it would be awful for you to go through full blown IVF and still have it end in losses, you CAN carry a baby to term, there WILL be an answer to all of this, stay strong we are all with you 100% xx

[Throwaway_panther]

Well I'm pregnant again. Now we see how long this one lasts since my progesterone was 8.33 at 6DPO and I'm already having weird temps and weird HPTs. We are being deemed unexplained RPL -- DH's SA didn't make two REs bat an eye, my RE considers low progesterone an effect and not a cause of loss (despite recommending everyone go on the supplements?), and she even said maybe it's an egg issue despite ALL my numbers being really good and me being 28 and healthy...

Second RE recommended IVF with PGS but said we could try one medicated cycle too... but at this point how much heartbreak am I going to put myself through?

Well, apparently a lot, since here I am.

[ksmom]

Oh TP I hope this babe is a sticky one for you. It's so unfair how much heartbreak you've gone through. My RE once had a couple that were otherwise healthy people but the wife had 6 losses in a row before finally having a healthy baby. No explanation was found. She said some people just have awful luck. I think regarding the progesterone, it's usually low because the pregnancy isn't viable, not it's low and therefore causing losses. I think ivf is a good option for you especially since there's no explanation for your miscarriages. I really really hope though that this pregnancy sticks.

[XXforhubby]

(((Huge Hugs))) TP! I’m hoping and praying with everything I have that this is your sticky bean 🤞🏻[emoji1317]!!


[emoji170]8/2010 [emoji170]6/2013 [emoji170]11/2015 [emoji170]
[emoji178]10/2017[emoji178]

[emoji254]Thank you Gender Dreaming for our precious little girl![emoji254]

[Throwaway_panther]

Oh TP I hope this babe is a sticky one for you. It's so unfair how much heartbreak you've gone through. My RE once had a couple that were otherwise healthy people but the wife had 6 losses in a row before finally having a healthy baby. No explanation was found. She said some people just have awful luck. I think regarding the progesterone, it's usually low because the pregnancy isn't viable, not it's low and therefore causing losses. I think ivf is a good option for you especially since there's no explanation for your miscarriages. I really really hope though that this pregnancy sticks.

From what I've read, women under 35 with RPL have the same success rates with IVF and PGS as they do 'expectant management'... so I thin that's why I thought, "Maybe just one more time..."

Especially since I fuly weaned DD and my O moved up 4 days from CD 19 to CD 15!

[DreamingRainbow]

Congratulations to you! Wishing u a happy healthy 9 months [emoji170]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[ksmom]

At least if you did do ivf with pgd you'd know you're putting in a healthy embryo. I'm sure it would still be scary though, not knowing if it's going to work or not.

[4blue2pink]

Congratulations TP and fingers crossed this is the one!! i know a few people who similar to ksmom's example had multiple losses back to back and then went on to have healthy and uncomplicated pregnancies after, as far as i am aware they also never got answers.

a more detailed example i can give is one of my good friends who lost 7 babies in a row trying for number 1 :( all early losses and never an answer found, she went on to have a healthy boy followed 3 years later by a healthy girl with no losses in between and neither were ivf, clearly something wasnt right during those 7 losses but it goes to show that whatever causes this doesn't always last forever in every case so lets stay positive :heart:

did your dh have a repeat SA done?

thinking of you and sending all the sticky blue dust there is xx

[Throwaway_panther]

HCG at 12DPO came back negative. I still have very faint BFPs everytime I test, but they've never gotten darker than the 9DPO one. I still had hopes we could do this without IVF...

[XXforhubby]

(((Huge Hugs))) My heart goes out to you TP!


[emoji170]8/2010 [emoji170]6/2013 [emoji170]11/2015 [emoji170]
[emoji178]10/2017[emoji178]

[emoji254]Thank you Gender Dreaming for our precious little girl![emoji254]

[Throwaway_panther]

I really believed I'd get my boy through swaying. I even had my hypothetical sway post planned out.

I'm heartbroken we have to go HT at all. I'll never be able to get the joy or hope from a positive test. My ability to get pregnant so easily is apparently a complete waste. Even sex has become just a constant reminder of loss. I even bargained with the universe that I'd have been fine with a girl in this last pregnancy. I'm so tired of all of this grief.

Since we will be using condoms from now on as we wait for my third IVF consult at the end of the month, I'm throwing in the towel for HE. Which makes me sad. Who knew the cure to my lifelong disordered eating was my desire for a boy? But I've read keto and even a 5% decrease in bodyweight has great results for IVF success, so I'll revert to what I do best: dieting. I can already feel the familiar whisper of my ED as I plan out my meals everyday. But what else can I do? I underate the last two days just out of depression, and I slip so easily back into it I almost laugh.

Now set in the fears that I won't even get my boy through HT...

[MiaMelb]

TP your journey has been such a rollercoaster to follow, I can not imagine how difficult it must have been to live at times.
I am sorry the swaying part of your journey is over and wish you the best of luck as you move onto ivf. I will miss having you as the fountain on knowledge in the blue swaying world.
I hope your sticky (blue) bean is not too far off and dare I hope to perhaps be in a due date group with you in the not too distant future.
On a side note I hope you are able to stay healthy and happy with your eating. I have not always been the healthiest with my eating habits but I am becoming very aware of what I can teach my daughters in terms of both good/bad relationships with food and their bodies.
Hugs to you.

[atomic sagebrush]

Just keep in mind, Panther, that too low in weight and too few carbs is also not good. I don't want you to slip back into disordered eating here because that's not going to help anything at all.

[atomic sagebrush]

Agh i never caught up to this thread since it had so many responses - I'm sorry it didn't work out this time but I have high hopes for IVF. ((((hugs)))))

[nicoler]

Just keep in mind, Panther, that too low in weight and too few carbs is also not good. I don't want you to slip back into disordered eating here because that's not going to help anything at all.

THIS!

If you already have a normal BMI you do not need to lose weight for HT. Don't over think it and go crazy planning perfect meals or calorie/carb/protein counting. Just eat a normal sensible diet, fruits, vegetables etc. and don't be afraid to indulge in the odd treat from time to time! It truly won't make or break things.

[4blue2pink]

devastated to see this TP :( it has been such a long and heartbreaking journey for you, i still truly hope to see a post from you announcing your healthy baby boy :heart:
ivf is not the end of the road it is a new route towards your end destination of a healthy baby boy, wishing you all the strength, luck and happiness there is as you start on this new path and i would love to see updates from you if you still want to post them xx

[Erin514]

I'm so sorry you're going through all this TP. When I first found this site you were still pregnant with your daughter and I remember many of your posts. You've gone through so much to try to get your son. I really hope that HT works out for you and that one day you'll have your son in your arms and be able to look back on this as a dark time in your life that's behind you. :heart:

[Pbn3]

Subbing in [emoji173]

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[Throwaway_panther]

Thought I'd update just to vent I guess.

We just had a spectacularly unsuccessful cycle of IVF. We have only 2 blastocytes to check, and after a discussion with the embryologist, it's looking like official our losses have been because of a male factor. My eggs looked great, all 9 that were mature fertilized (out of 16 eggs, but we think the drop off there was because they barely stimmed me!) and were great until Day 3. Then after that they started to drop off, which is often a sperm issue.

His sperm count in the sample was apparently only 2.9 million. If ICSI wasn't already the standard, they would have been doing it for sure. But even then, ICSI is just literally picking out what looks the best and has okay heads and tails. If you've followed my story, you might remember his semen analysis (that I pushed for) in October was already wonky -- unexpectdly abnormal and low normal numbers. Total count then was 23.9 million. So despite supplements, less caffeine and alcohol, and his continued healthiness, his numbers have only dropped.

Next step would be to investigate sperm DNA fragmentation, a possible varicocele, etc. Husband is refusing to listen to any of this. He refuses to acknowledge this is the issue and says it's me "just pushing for an answer." But we got the answer :/

I don't know what to do. If there's any semblance of something in the universe that takes pity on me, I hope those blastocytes are normal, and I really hope they're boys. But I'm not holding my breath for either. I can't allow myself to feel any hope, not after how I've been chewed up these last several years.

Thanks for reading.

[atomic sagebrush]

What is he taking?

Some of the stuff on the market is worse than nothing. I am super concerned about a drop off from 24 million to 3 million because that, to me, indicates something serious has changed between then and now. We need to get to the bottom of why this is and the first thing I'm suspicious of since many of the fertility supps have actually harmful things in them.

I have literally NEVER heard any embryologist worth their salt tell anyone the reason why their IVF did not succeed. They can't tell if an egg is good based on looking at it (if they could they'd just discard the bad eggs right at the start!) The fact is they do not know why these things happen and they should be and usually do investigate every possible angle because there is always room for improvement in other ways too - protocol, etc. I am feeling very very wary of a rush to judgement about why this has happened because I want you in with your best chances and deciding that it's this thing or that thing when they really don't know why.

Hugest hugs and please don't hesitate to get back to me about the supps, because something has changed and we need to know what it is.

[Throwaway_panther]

Well, literally every study and the nurse who followed up also say that sperm issues are often to blame. I'm sort of sick of the "well it must still be your eggs" angle when literally every thing we come across is saying that NO, it is not my eggs, and I'm sick of carrying the weight of this whole process because of that perspective. We thought it was my husband in October. We're thinking it's him now. It's looking like, no, it's not me even though I'm the one who gets injected, takes a medicine cabinet full of supplements, is unable to relax or enjoy any part of my life anymore, gets my body poked and prodded over and over again. His whole family is full of infertility issues and now more results are showing something is wrong here with his sperm. I'm not saying this to be hostile to you, just ranting out of frustration that I feel like I'm fighting a "if it looks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck..." situation here still.

The only supplement that has changed since October was he went from a multi to Fertilaid for men ON doctor recommendation, but he doesn't even take it as regularly as he's supposed to since he's been on one bottle for 3 months now. He's been drinking organic oatstraw infusions periodically as well. We're going to investigate if there's perhaps a varicocele, but the other suspicion is there is something more dramatic going on that needs to be investigated asap -- or he's lying about taking supplements, about his masturbation habits, etc. I know he's not smoking, I'd smell it. But otherwise, who knows. But shit's not on my end. The drugs barely touched me and I responded well and all of my mature eggs fertilized (a sign of egg quality, as well, not sperm quality as I learned).

ETA: And there's the declining sperm rate seen all over the world, so I guess there's that. Yay, the Handmaid's Tale :|

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok, see I really hesitated to answer since I could tell it was going to turn into an argument. Remember that I am telling you this stuff without payment, without benefiting from it any any way, because I am trying to help you have a better outcome. Nurses will tell you exactly what they think you want to hear. They do not know why your IVF didn't work out as planned. Full stop. I understand you are upset and raw, but please don't kill the messenger. I understand you are venting but I am a human being who is trying to help you and I don't need it, quite frankly.

Believe what you would like, and what gives you peace of mind. However, I urge you to leave no stone unturned, assume nothing, and not to rest easily upon the most likely explanation though because doctors and other medical professionals will always seize upon the obvious and stop all investigations. This has happened to 9 jillion people on here including myself both with fertility things and health things. This is why people go months and years without being diagnosed with stuff is because the doctor decides something (breastfeeding, sperm quality, whatever) is THE problem and then misses the actual problem or half of the problem or whatever.

Personally, I am not a fan of Fertilaid for men. I know doctors recommend it but the maca and ginseng, I believe to be bad juju. So if a guy is on the borderline, these things might push him right over. Now if he's not taking it that much maybe it's something else but that is the first thing I'd ditch IMO. I would certainly ditch it before I started getting suspicious of him.

If your tone with your husband is at all like what your tone is coming through here, he's not going to be terribly cooperative with you. It's how men are, they rebel at being told what to do, unfortunately. I tell you this not to be a big meanie, but because he sounded like a pretty caring and decent dude and it seemed like you had a pretty solid relationship before. This is not a blame game. This is how fertility issues destroy marriages, it really is.

I wish you the best of luck in your IVF rounds. But I'm done answering questions (and you're probably just fine with that.) I hope my next post will be a congratulatory one. Blue sticky dust coming your way.

[Throwaway_panther]

I tell you this not to be a big meanie, but because he sounded like a pretty caring and decent dude and it seemed like you had a pretty solid relationship before. This is not a blame game. This is how fertility issues destroy marriages, it really is.

I wish you the best of luck in your IVF rounds. But I'm done answering questions (and you're probably just fine with that.) I hope my next post will be a congratulatory one. Blue sticky dust coming your way.

Lol I appreciate the ~well wishes, and I wasn't ever actually trying to ask you questions so my bad for coming across as asking of your personal time/resources. I was viewing this board to be for multiple members of the community, which is my mistake if I took it for that once again. It's why I tend to stick to HT now for any questions -- this was just sort of to rant. But man oh man, if you thought my husband was a caring dude through any of my posts, I must talk up a pretty good game -- especially since I think we've established you and I misunderstand each other's tones time and time again, which I think was happening yet again :oops:

I'm about as done with all of this as you are with me so I don't blame you. Maybe we'll all get lucky and I'll be put out of everyone's misery sooner rather than later.