TTC for a girl after my rainbow boy?

[atomic sagebrush]

Vitex has not gotten the results I like to see to justify its existence. I keep it in the mix because I do think it can sway pink, but it has caused so much mischief messing up cycles for people that I am using it less and less. Totally up to you if you wish to pursue or not.

Oh yes co sleeping can make it take longer for your cycle to normalize, that's for sure. I had that experience myself!

Gluten free diets have = more girls conceived for us so that's all good there.

[angelmamma]

Vitex has not gotten the results I like to see to justify its existence. I keep it in the mix because I do think it can sway pink, but it has caused so much mischief messing up cycles for people that I am using it less and less. Totally up to you if you wish to pursue or not.

Oh yes co sleeping can make it take longer for your cycle to normalize, that's for sure. I had that experience myself!

Gluten free diets have = more girls conceived for us so that's all good there.

Hey atomic,

Thanks for your reply! I skipped my morning dose of Vitex while I was awaiting your response, is it effective at just 400mg? How long does it take for a woman to bounce back if vitex has messed with her cycle? I'm not liking how unpredictable my cycles are, but now am thinking about stopping it since I really want to avoid anything delaying my ovulation.

[atomic sagebrush]

I have seen people's cycles messed up at 400 mg so I assume it's doing something, unfortunately without a lot more data I cannot say for sure.

How fast people come back from vitex depends on a lot of things - like their diet, how thin they are, how much they're exercising, etc. But yes vitex often only makes things worse. I just can't predict, unfortunately, how any one person will react to the vitex, that's why I feel like it's soo tricky and troublesome that even though it can help occasionaly it's like playing Russian Roulette about who it will help and who it won't.

[angelmamma]

I have seen people's cycles messed up at 400 mg so I assume it's doing something, unfortunately without a lot more data I cannot say for sure.

How fast people come back from vitex depends on a lot of things - like their diet, how thin they are, how much they're exercising, etc. But yes vitex often only makes things worse. I just can't predict, unfortunately, how any one person will react to the vitex, that's why I feel like it's soo tricky and troublesome that even though it can help occasionaly it's like playing Russian Roulette about who it will help and who it won't.

Hello atomic,

I am on CD 12. My husband and I decided to pursue taking Vitex for just this cycle. I was wondering if you could enlighten me on some questions I have regarding this and my current cycle. I am on CD 12, I know you stated earlier you only have women take Vitex until CD 12. I started it in CD 2 (it didn't arrive in the mail until CD 2), so would you suggest I stop or should I take it tomorrow as well? Also, I have noticed my son's stools have been a greener color, any stats on if they effect a nursing infant's stools? I am not sure if it's the Vitex to blame, but since I am on CD 12 and his stools (no other side effects) seem to be a little greener hue, I am beginning to suspect the Vitex.
It seems to slightly decrease my milk supply in the morning/afternoon, then my supply returns to 100% in the late evening.
My cycle has been so far:
CD 10 and 11, wet cm, negative OPKs. Today, CD 12, disparagingly, I've been pretty dry, however my OPKs, even though still negative, the past day and a half seem to be getting progressively darker. BBT seems normal, a little higher today. I was suspecting perhaps my O date would be earlier due to the Vitex and the wet CM and darkening OPKs, but the sudden change in CM has me a bit baffled today.
Do you have any input on how I should continue this cycle regarding the Vitex and any insight on my current cycle? Thanks, atomic. I appreciate your input. Have a nice day!

[atomic sagebrush]

No, it doesn't matter when you started it, we stop on CD 12 because it can delay ovulation so stopping at that point will hopefully allow your body time to surge and ovulate normally.

I haven't had the green stool issue reported to me before and I didn't notice it when I was using it, either. But anything is possible, green stools are often a result of foremilk/hindmilk imbalance so possibly the vitex may affect that??

It is normal to be dry on the vitex.

It's rare to O early on Vitex. Late is much more common.

[angelmamma]

Hello atomic,

I apologize for all of my buggy questions. Well, today is CD 18. CD14-15 I had wet/cm and CD 16-17 I had the classic EWCM. My LH strips got significantly darker, however never were "positive". Well, today I woke up, wiped, and had some EWCM (perhaps leftover from yesterday?). Now, it is just sticky/tacky/cloudy. However, today I've had zero BBT rise. :/ Could today be my peak day? I know, "Taking Charge of your Fertility" states any EWCM counts, but after my restroom stop this morning, nothing but tacky cm and zero rise. Could I just not be ovulating? I feel quite disappointed and deflated today. It seems my body "gears up" for ovulation right around the right time, but then just doesn't. I suppose my hormones for ovulating just haven't hit that threshold to release an egg. My nursing relationship with my son takes priority over TTC, but I am willing to try to minimize the night feeds or change our schedule around if that might help. Any insights, atomic? Thank you!

[atomic sagebrush]

Are you getting AF, though?? If you're getting AF, you are ovulating.

My suspicion is that you are one of those people who have a drop in EWCM the day before O, so you have less than on the peak day but still haven't Oed. OR, you could have Oed and just not detected the surge on the strips. I generally suggest having an attempt if you have even an inkling that you may be Oing, in case you're getting false negative on the OPK.

[angelmamma]

Are you getting AF, though?? If you're getting AF, you are ovulating.

My suspicion is that you are one of those people who have a drop in EWCM the day before O, so you have less than on the peak day but still haven't Oed. OR, you could have Oed and just not detected the surge on the strips. I generally suggest having an attempt if you have even an inkling that you may be Oing, in case you're getting false negative on the OPK.

Really? Interesting. Can you ovulate with zero temp rise? I've gotten AF it seems every month since my son was 6 weeks. I'm sorry, I am full of questions and ideas today, so please bear with me, atomic. I never got a positive OPK and I tested every few hours when I started seeing wetter cm. Well, I've had zero temp rise, which is concerning. I've been reading up on "natural child spacing" and according to some studies, Fertility can return in stages after child birth and breastfeeding (stage 1 - menses return, but ovulation does not occur; stage 2 - ovulation occurs, but has deficient luteal competency; stage 3 - ovulation occurs and suffient competent luteal phase). Apparently, the faster your menses return, the more gradual the return of "full fertility*. I am curious on what your take is on this, or if you think this is what may be occurring with me. If that is so, I'm on stage 1, but I've been on stage 1 since my son has been 6 weeks. I started reading up on "anovulatory bleeding" since that seems to be up my alley, and it says I could be bleeding due to the slow estrogen build up then significant drop (estrogen withdraw bleeding), or, more common: the endometrium builds slowly over an extended period of time to the point where the uterine lining is so thick that it can no longer sustain itself. Due to the lack of pregesterone to maintain it, the lining is released which is known as "estrogen breakthrough bleeding".
Sorry, I'm a chatter box and I ramble! Perhaps I should stay away from Google and the library.
The above explains some of it or what I've been experiencing, but it seems that I have EWCM and fertile mucus right when I'm supposed to ovulate. Kinda like a "false start". I'm frustrated since I'm on CD 21, no temp rise, but I had the regular pattern of cervical mucus. My OPK was negative, but it got darker over time, but not dark enough to be positive. Perhaps my body was trying to ovulate, but the LH surge just didn't spike enough or something?
Again, I apologize for my long book above and if I sound absolutely batsh*t crazy, haha. I'm just frustrated and quite perplexed.

[atomic sagebrush]

95% of everyone who gets their period is ovulating. You could be in that 5%, I suppose. Do I think that's what is happening - no. I think you're ovulating and not getting a temp rise for some reason (bad thermometer or because you're nursing, sometimes nursing disrupts your sleep to such an extent that you cannot temp, it won't work because you haven't had long enough not disrupted sleep.)

People on websites and scientists like to lay out these beautiful theoretical scenarios with stages and symptoms and bladiblah but that is NOT how it goes for most people, that's why people can and do catch the first egg while breastfeeding. Yes, totally normal to have fertility come back gradually but I really think you're taking it far too literally, most people do NOT go through those stages and simply wake up one day with their period and everything goes back to normal again. Others may have a couple months with a short LP and then back to normal. Everyone is different and the fact is that the older your baby gets the more likely it is that things will return to normal, and so even if your O is missing due to nursing, the prescription is the same - wait till your body produces a viable egg and be in a position to catch it.

What they mean when they say "the more gradual return of full fertility" simply means that a woman who gets her cycle back at 6 weeks PP is probably not going to be back to full fertility for another few months compared to someone who got their cycle back at 18 months PP. Does NOT mean that anyone who got their cycle back early is doomed to have a slow return to fertility that takes years, not at all, and in fact I sometimes see people who get their cycle back early who are actually highly fertile, that's why their bodies think "hmm I could handle another baby, I'll start ovulating again".

We have noticed that while breastfeeding we sometimes will have "practice cycles" where our bodies gear up to ovulate but nursing suppresses it and then you don't get AF (most of the time.) Now, this may be what is happening to you, again, do I think this is that likely, I honestly don't. Breakthrough bleeding, while it can rarely happen monthly and can rarely be just like a normal period, is usually very irregular and unexpected, it doesn't happen right when you expect AF to come and 7-14 days after you had ovulation symptoms. It comes out of seemingly nowhere, is unusually heavy and seems like old dark blood or unusually light and just carries on spotting for a while, and not ~usually~ regular predictable cycles.

So, what you're describing to me is possible. Not likely but possible. But even if it is the case that this is going on, the cure (while rather dull) is simply waiting it out and you will eventually O and catch the egg.

[angelmamma]

95% of everyone who gets their period is ovulating. You could be in that 5%, I suppose. Do I think that's what is happening - no. I think you're ovulating and not getting a temp rise for some reason (bad thermometer or because you're nursing, sometimes nursing disrupts your sleep to such an extent that you cannot temp, it won't work because you haven't had long enough not disrupted sleep.)

People on websites and scientists like to lay out these beautiful theoretical scenarios with stages and symptoms and bladiblah but that is NOT how it goes for most people, that's why people can and do catch the first egg while breastfeeding. Yes, totally normal to have fertility come back gradually but I really think you're taking it far too literally, most people do NOT go through those stages and simply wake up one day with their period and everything goes back to normal again. Others may have a couple months with a short LP and then back to normal. Everyone is different and the fact is that the older your baby gets the more likely it is that things will return to normal, and so even if your O is missing due to nursing, the prescription is the same - wait till your body produces a viable egg and be in a position to catch it.

What they mean when they say "the more gradual return of full fertility" simply means that a woman who gets her cycle back at 6 weeks PP is probably not going to be back to full fertility for another few months compared to someone who got their cycle back at 18 months PP. Does NOT mean that anyone who got their cycle back early is doomed to have a slow return to fertility that takes years, not at all, and in fact I sometimes see people who get their cycle back early who are actually highly fertile, that's why their bodies think "hmm I could handle another baby, I'll start ovulating again".

We have noticed that while breastfeeding we sometimes will have "practice cycles" where our bodies gear up to ovulate but nursing suppresses it and then you don't get AF (most of the time.) Now, this may be what is happening to you, again, do I think this is that likely, I honestly don't. Breakthrough bleeding, while it can rarely happen monthly and can rarely be just like a normal period, is usually very irregular and unexpected, it doesn't happen right when you expect AF to come and 7-14 days after you had ovulation symptoms. It comes out of seemingly nowhere, is unusually heavy and seems like old dark blood or unusually light and just carries on spotting for a while, and not ~usually~ regular predictable cycles.

So, what you're describing to me is possible. Not likely but possible. But even if it is the case that this is going on, the cure (while rather dull) is simply waiting it out and you will eventually O and catch the egg.

Thank you very much for your very informative reply, atomic! Your post yesterday lifted my husband's and my morale. We did attempt a couple times during the days I had more fertile cervical mucus. You are right, every since I started co sleeping with my son, he's been up every couple hours to dream feed at night, so I suppose there's not really a point in temping and my chart could just be quite off. I wouldn't say my cycles have been "predictable" as in, "Yeah, on CD 36, I'll have my period." However, they've been predictable enough where when CD 30 rolls around, I'm pretty sure within the week or so, I'll see AF. Would you suggest I just go by cervical fluid in lieu of temping? Last month, I had EWCM at CD 14, but didn't see AF until CD 37, could my luteal phase just be long?
This month, EWCM showed up on CD 16.