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Thread: The pH Pickle

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    The pH Pickle

    pH is second only to timing as an unquestioned “truth” of swaying. But is it, really? Let’s take a look at pH and see how and IF it even makes a difference. Updated 12-13-17

    Biologically, pH serves a very valuable purpose in the human vagina. Many harmful microorganisms don’t like low pH and it makes it more difficult for them to survive. The naturally low vaginal pH of 4.5-5 is sort of a gateway mechanism that exists during most of the cycle to keep harmful invaders at bay…by killing everything before it can make its way up inside your uterus where it could cause a serious infection.

    The problem is, sperm don’t like low pH either. NEITHER X nor Y sperm like low pH (less than 6), in fact it renders them immobile, if not dead. In one study, it was shown that when a woman’s pH was less than 6, she had no motile sperm in her cervix in the postcoital test. The pH of cervical mucus, quality of seme... [Clin Reprod Fertil. 1986] - PubMed - NCBI

    WHAT?? Read it again ladies – pH of less than 6 = NO motile sperm in the cervix. Not X, not Y. X sperm DO NOT love low pH. NO sperm love low pH. Low pH kills sperm. That is why the natural pH of semen is in the 7’s – that’s what sperm prefer and thrive in (note – they don’t like super high pH either!!). Infertility - A Couple's Survival Guide

    Then how do we get pregnant at all? As we approach ovulation, we experience a gradual rise in estrogen that triggers not only ovulation itself, but also causes our our cervical crypts, endometrial glands (in the uterus), and special cells in the Fallopian tubes that grow every month for no other purpose than to make alkaline fluids, Fallopian tube - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, to produce fluids that are higher in pH. This higher pH EWCM and the similar fluids inside our uterus and Fallopian tubes is ALWAYS between 6.5 and 8. pH regulation in the female reproductive tract Even the fluid that is released along with the egg at ovulation is high in pH. There is NO acidic fluid in the female reproductive tract where sperm meets egg. ONLY in the vagina is pH ever low.

    As our cervix opens up at ovulation, this alkaline EWCM flows down and out into our vagina and raises vaginal pH to enable sperm to survive. This CM creates a little path for the sperm to swim in to reach the safety of the alkaline cervix, uterus, and Fallopian tubes…when our husbands ejaculate, their semen is essentially a life raft of alkalinity that keeps sperm alive until they can find their way onto that path. It’s a gamble that our bodies temporarily take at ovulation – we risk temporarily raising the chance of infection in order to make it possible for sperm to survive to make it to the egg.

    When Dr. Shettles came along, he did not have the technology to be able to go up inside a woman’s body and reliably test for pH. If you’ll recall (if you don’t recall, please read this essay to learn about Dr. Shettles’ BIG mistake http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...le-timing.html) Dr. Shettles believed (wrongly) that X sperm were big and slow and lived a long time, while Y sperm were small and fast and died quickly. So based on this erroneous conclusion, he then decided that X sperm were impervious to damage and looked back at some old information involving a veterinarian that claimed to get more boy horses than girl horses conceived by using baking soda douches. But it just isn’t true. Dr. Shettles was WRONG. Both X and Y sperm like alkaline environment. They both thrive in it. All low pH does is kill off sperm!

    The underlying assumption of pH and swaying has always been, women who conceive girls naturally have a low pH and women who conceive boys naturally have a high pH and that this affects X and Y survivability and motility differently somehow, and that’s why some of us have boys and others have girls. But this simply cannot be true. If ALL sperm thrive in pH of the 7’s, high 6’s at the very lowest, if sperm actually become immobile at pH less than 6 and DIE, and ALL our female bodies are designed to provide a nice alkaline pH at ovulation and if we don’t we have a very hard time getting pregnant, HOW can it be true that X sperm “love” low pH and that all the girls on the planet were born to women who just so happened to have low pH because they ate a lot of cranberries??

    IT CAN’T BE TRUE.

    Now, given all that, let’s move on to the logic of pH and swaying. Does altering our pH REALLY make any sense at all whatsoever? People have used it to sway and seemingly had some measure of success at it.

    Just for giggles, let’s assume that the traditional sway info is 100% right – we’ll pretend that X sperm love low pH and Y sperm love high pH. What would then happen if we shot a big bunch of low pH goop into our vagina at ovulation? If the pH of the cervix, uterus, Fallopian tubes, and even follicular fluid is in the 7’s, and X sperm ~really~ loved low pH, would not the X sperm simply stay in the low pH of the vagina? Wouldn’t the Y sperm flee the scene in terror as quickly as it could and head TOWARDS the egg if it was more alkaline up there (because remember, your pH up inside the uterus and tubes will always be higher than that in your vagina)? And if you were swaying blue, EW or BSF/BSD, with pH in the high 8’s-9’s...why would a Y sperm ever leave that environment to go into a LOWER pH? Wouldn’t it just sit there happily basking in the high pH while the X moved on to more acidic pastures? It simply makes no sense.

    The argument goes, that this pH diffuses up into your entire reproductive tract, all the way up to the egg (and there are studies and patents out there, done as most swaying studies are, by the “I.M. Sellingsomething University of Vaguely Scientific Sounding Gibberish, Timbuktu Campus” that allegedly prove this) but this premise is equally nonsensical. If the pH of the vagina could diffuse up into your uterus and Fallopian tubes, then our naturally low vaginal pH would diffuse upwards and LOWER our internal pH at ovulation. But instead, the alkaline fluids being created up inside of all of us (and remember your body grows special cells every month that have NO other purpose but to make alkaline fluids!!) assisted by gravity, flow down and into the vagina and raise vaginal pH!

    Additionally, at ovulation, every square millimeter of our cervical crypts, uterine endometrium, the cells in our Fallopian tubes are busy churning out fluids with pH in the 7’s. Even if there was some diffusion into part of the cervix from douches/jellies/egg white/BSF/BSD (which may very well be the case) that doesn’t mean that diffusion will amount to anything at the egg, where it really counts. The cervix is designed to keep things that aren’t supposed to be there, OUT. The vagina is very similar to the human mouth - if you swish your mouth with baking soda water and then spit it out, and then tested your mouth’s pH, it would def. be higher temporarily and it may even be higher in the upper portions of your esophagus thanks to diffusion. But it would NOT change the pH of your stomach acid in any appreciable way (which in your repro tract, would be akin to the Fallopian tubes where sperm meets egg.) Diffusion isn’t magic, it gets weaker the farther away you get and it gets diluted by whatever other fluids it meets along the way.

    Perhaps an even better example is if you have one of those horrible colds where your nose runs and runs…does it really make sense that if you put a moistened fingertip of baking soda inside your nostrils, that will do ANYTHING to change the pH up inside your sinuses? No, because your body is making so much mucus that it just keeps flowing down and out, not up and in.

    pH has also been said to sway via “ions”, but the problem is that X and Y sperm have been shown not to have different electrical charges in recent studies. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/scie...m-y-sperm.html Therefore they cannot be differentially attracted by ions in cervical mucus or by any electrical pull of the egg. Plus, acids themselves contain POSITIVE ions, not negative ones – so if someone could explain how bombarding yourself with negative ions “because X sperm prefer negative ions” (source IG FAQ) and then using acids that are chock full of positive hydronium ions (that’s what acids ARE, liquids with positive hydronium ions – read both pages, the second page has a nice graphic on it that clearly shows acids have positive ions and bases (alkaline) have negative ones Chem4Kids.com: Reactions: Acids and Bases and Chem4Kids.com: Reactions: Acids and Bases II ) makes any sense whatsoever, that would be great – I’m not a chemist and I freely admit I could be wrong or have missed something on this but it just doesn’t seem to add up.

    Practically speaking, if any of the ion/electrical charge jazz was true, there would be no need for Microsort – Microsort is a procedure where X and Y sperm are differentiated by using dyes and then a technician adds a tiny droplet of liquid that contains an electrical charge and then the charged sperm are separated by electrostatic plates. If X and Y sperm had different electrical charges to begin with, there would be no need for this complicated process, they could just separate them with the electrostatic plates! Again, we HAVE the technology to separate out X and Y sperm via electric charge but it does not work unless electric charges are ADDED to the sperm. Why would the technicians have to add electrical charges if X and Y sperm already had them? Answer - because X and Y sperm DO NOT have different electrical charges, this idea has been debunked!! If pH is supposed to sway because of ions, science simply does not support it.

    Along these same lines, if pH really swayed in any way at all, it would have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt by now. Because it would be so easy to prove using modern technology!! As one of the best known sway tactics there is - a tactic that’s actually been around longer than timing and I can guarantee you that most if not all reproductive endocrinologists have heard of it - if pH caused Y sperm’s “tails to freeze” or whatever the theory claims, then RE’s would have figured out a way to simply dump an egg and some sperm in an acidic or alkaline environment for a cheap method of gender swaying. They’d LOVE to be able to do this because they’d make a fortune at it. But they don’t, because it doesn’t work! If it worked they would be doing it already!

    Yes, but Dr. Ericsson uses pH in his sperm spinning methods! There has been seemingly some success with Dr. Ericsson and others using “albumin gradients”, swim up/modified swim up, and sperm spinning, but there are some problems that have arisen with the Ericsson method. First of all, no other researcher has managed to replicate Dr. Ericsson’s methods independently (never a good sign for any scientific claim). Secondly, Dr. Ericsson himself admits that even after all the albumin and spinning business, the sperm are STILL 50-50 X and Y but claims that these sperm then go onto produce more boys or girls, according to how they’re spun. Thirdly, see the paragraph above. If pH ~really~ swayed in any strong, undeniable way (as in, put Acijel in your VJ as a magic bullet for pink, or BSF for blue), then WHY would Dr. Ericsson have to use all the “albumin gradients” and swim up/modified swim up and sperm spinning to get it a weak 70% results at best (that no other researcher can repeat). If true, we don’t know why it is – if it’s pH, spinning, or some other thing all together (such as the albumin gradients triggering different rates of capacitation than what normally occurs in the body.) We get as good or better results with swaying alone than Ericcson does with all his tricks in the lab!

    What am I testing with my Ph sticks then? People do start swaying and then see the number on their pH stick change, and I have a couple explanations for that. Firstly, a lot of people on IG (a site where people test pH a lot) did NOT understand that their pH would naturally fluctuate throughout the month. When I was a forum mod on that site I saw tons of pink swayers who were thrilled that their pH immediately dropped to 4.5 (after starting their sway at the end of AF because that’s when people tend to start their sway; as it just so happens that’s also when their pH was naturally on the low side) and then freaking out when their pH went up at ovulation because they truly thought their pH was 4.5 because they were taking cranberry and not because it’s naturally low when you’re not fertile.

    For blue swayers, if you start off testing pH NOT at ovulation, and then test at ovulation, it will appear your pH is going up but it very well may have gone up every other cycle of your life when you weren’t testing – including all the times you conceived girls. pH ONLY counts in the fertile window, because that’s the only time sperm can survive long enough to reach the egg, so any reports of low pH are meaningless unless we know for a fact that the reading was pH within the fertile window. So at least some of the pH claims, from IG particularly, are inaccurate and misleading because we don’t know when these people were even testing pH. Or how – pH from the lower part of your cervix will naturally be lower than pH from nearer your cervix and two different readings on two different sticks may indicate nothing other than different techniques. Not to mention that if you use a fingertip full of Acijel or baking soda and then test your pH right after, of course your pH will seem very low or high, accordingly. But all you’re testing is the pH of Acijel/baking soda – you’re not even necessarily testing your CM pH! Even CM pH tells you nothing about what is going on up inside where sperm meets egg.

    Secondly, if you naturally have a lot of EWCM at ovulation and you dry it up via diet, supps, and antihistamines, OR if you typically have very little and then increase it via diet, supps, and Robi/Muci, then NATURALLY your pH will appear different. It does NOT mean that the actual pH of your CM has changed at all, just that there is less of it or more of it available for you to test. Since EWCM is what makes your pH go up at ovulation, having less or more (or thinner and watery vs. thicker and drier) than you normally do, will appear as an increase in CM pH even though your CM pH may be identical to what it’s been every other month of your entire existence. I personally believe that much of what is reported as rises and falls in CM pH is nothing other than more or less EWCM or CM that has taken on a more or less fertile consistency.

    Thirdly, it is IMPOSSIBLE to alter your blood pH with diet. If your blood pH goes outside a very narrow range, you DIE. Acid/Alkaline Theory of Disease Is Nonsense The idea that you can alter your body’s pH through diet is completely untrue. I promise that regardless of the pH of the foods you ingest, the second they hit your stomach acid (very low pH of 1-2) they dissolve into a low pH slurry that is then neutralized in your duodenum by alkaline fluids before moving on to your intestines. You can seemingly alter the pH of your urine temporarily, and it ~may~ be that you can alter the pH of your CM from diet in a similar fashion although I’m not convinced of that because CM has nothing to do with the digestive tract whatsoever. In one study done in mice, mice fed an acid or alkaline diet, whose urine pH changed accordingly, did NOT have any different gender ratios of offspring. http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/RD06053

    I find it much more likely that again, what you do to sway via diet is affecting the amount and consistency of CM and that the presence or absence of CM in the vagina is the only thing that actually changes at all. Example – drinking a lot of lemon water for blue keeps you well hydrated and being well hydrated helps your body make CM, in addition to replacing some less healthy options such as diet sodas that some blue swayers may have drunk in excess when they conceived their DDs. Example 2 – LE Diet helps to lower estrogen and less estrogen means drier and scanty CM and so can dry up CM and seemingly lower pH.

    If all this is true, atomic, then why do you keep pH in the sway at all? Two reasons - most importantly that people like it and feel like they need it or their sway will fail. I am certainly not the font of all earthly knowledge and if people want to keep pH in the mix, who am I to try and stop them? I have tried very hard to find the safest and best techniques that are safe both for health and for swaying and I feel that this is a great compromise between what people want and what I believe is best supported by the data. For pink swayers, RepHresh(this hasn't worked), baby aspirin (this hasn't worked), antihistamine (hasn't worked), diet; for blue swayers, Preseed or Conceive Plus, and fish oil, grapefruit juice, Robi/Muci (guaifenesin), and diet.

    Secondly, I actually DO think pH can sway. Not in the way that the traditional sway gurus claim – not because X “love” low pH and Y “love” high pH or because of ions or any other magic bullets, but because low pH kills sperm, and fewer sperm surviving to reach the egg seems to sway pink for reasons we don’t understand. High pH, on the other hand, may help sperm to stay alive in a hostile vaginal environment until it can make it into the safety of the cervix and beyond. (Update - since we have seen little to no benefit with pH stuff to a sway, I really, really, really have a hard time believing any of this is working. Use the methods if you want to, but it does not seem to be adding anything to a sway and the pH approach is really cutting odds of conception severely.)

    Some of the blue sway tactics that I believe to be sperm-hostile (such as egg white and baking soda douche/finger) the body is actually quite forgiving of, firstly because the sky high pH of BSF/BSD kind of average out with the low pH of the vagina to a more reasonable level, and secondly because when you insert anything odd into your vagina, it can trigger a reaction where your body produces alkaline mucus to try and wash the offending substance away so you actually end up triggering a big burst of mucus of normal alkalinity that gets rid of the super high pH stuff.. So blue swayers, even tho I still (VASTLY) prefer Preseed, if you’re already pregnant and you used BSD/BSF, please don’t panic, you still have a great chance at blue. (Update - I can no longer tolerate egg whites in swaying because I believe the risk of uterine infection to be too high and also believe that it may cause or contribute to miscarriage because of this risk. NO EGG WHITE)

    I hope this sheds a little light on a confusing topic! Please let me know if you have any questions or if anything was less than clear.

    PS - If you are a big believer in pH and still want to include it in your sway, that is FINE. This is not swaying atomic's way, it is swaying YOUR way. I have an essay on how to test pH here for those who choose to go that route. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...-ph-dh-dw.html


    I know sometimes when I go around debunking these things people get frustrated. You guys want to know what actually sways, if all this stuff doesn’t. But we don’t have the ability to figure that out. To really unravel the mysteries of gender ratio we have to rely scientists and researchers to put it all together. In the meantime, we can use logic and reason and the science that already exists, to rule out the things that are simply not adding up!
    Last edited by atomic sagebrush; February 11th, 2018 at 11:28 AM.
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    Atomic, this is another fantastically enlightening essay, and I found myself nodding along as I read it

    I fact I feel this connected the dots for me in a big way as I always had doubts about the way ph was said to sway, in fact I was going to ask if it swayed by reducing sperm count (as that had always been my guess) but then you covered that so no questions from me

    (and as an aside, I'm starting to feel like some kind of cyber stalker as I'm following you around and thinking that every thing you say is so insightful and brilliant!)
    Proud to be mummy to...



    And planning our sway for another

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    LOL @ "cyber stalker"

    Another brilliant and very clear essay, Atomic.

    Thank you for all the time you put into this website!
    2007 / 2011 / 2012



    Link to my girl sway: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/add-...-its-girl.html

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    I remember being so frustrated back when I was on IG because I'm one of those people who have low ionic strength and so can't test my PH. I remember being told there that I shouldn't even bother swaying if I couldn't test my PH, and it was even suggested I take copper supplements, which are very dangerous, to try to make my PH readable.

    I was so relieved when I came to this site for my next sway and learned how unimportant PH really is. I didn't try to test my PH even once and didn't fret about it either...and here I am having my girl! Thanks again, atomic!!
    Identical Twin Boys, May 2006

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    Lost at 11 Weeks, November 2011

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    I can't believe I have a daughter!
    Thank you everyone at Gender Dreaming and may all your dreams come true as well!


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    Thanks for another great essay!
    Last edited by Hobbermittens; June 28th, 2012 at 03:13 PM.
    2004 2006 2010 2012

    My BOY sway worked!! THANK YOU GENDER DREAMING!!

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    Thanks ladies! I really appreciate the feedback.

    Mocha - great point that I didn't even think to mention!! Aside from the copper supps, people are also told on IG to keep cal and mag in a 2-1 ratio to prevent low ionic strength. This is super dangerous because high intake of mag supps can also make you really sick. Some of the IG pink swayers are taking 1200-1800 mg of calcium and so are taking 600-900 mg of magnesium to prevent low ionic strength in order to test something that doesn't even matter anyway. I know of two people who ended up in the hospital because of this! Don't take any more than 200-250 mg magnesium and if you get diarrhea from that amount, take even less, because when you're eating low potassium and sodium, having diarrhea for even a short time can really mess up your electrolyte balance and make you very ill.
    !!! Questions?? Check out the NEW and improved Complete Index !!!

    LOOKING FOR YOUR SWAY PLAN? Have you checked the coaching forum? It will be posted in the same place your questionnaire is! https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/completed-questionnaires-and-private-coaching-access/

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    LE Diet PCOS idea thread here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/47264-le-diet-pcos.html

    PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SWAYING QUESTIONS VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE. Post swaying questions in the forums ONLY.

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    I've been having trouble testing my pH with the Hanna digital tester because you can't touch the glass bulb in the tip & at the time I didn't have enough CM. (used a Q-tip to apply & still wasn't convinced it read it accurately) So should I just skip pH testing & not worry about it?
    2006 2009
    IT'S A GIRL!!!! Prayed for and expecting a June 2013!!!




    "For I know the plans I have for you...plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11

    "He has made everything beautiful in its time." Ecclesiastes 3:11

    ‘The lot is cast into the lap but every decision is wholly of the Lord’ (Proverbs 16:33). In Hebrew it reads;‘Even the events that seem accidental are really ordered by Him’.



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    My personal opinion is that if you don't have enough CM to test, you've successfully swayed pink anyway and your pH is meaningless - plus if you're using RepHresh your pH will take care of itself anyway. My other personal opinion is that no one should be testing pH anyway because there have been too many pH opposites for it to really make much of a difference and it has the potential to raise your testosterone by being another thing to obsess over. But I know it's hard for peopel to let go of.

    This thread may help. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...-ph-dh-dw.html
    !!! Questions?? Check out the NEW and improved Complete Index !!!

    LOOKING FOR YOUR SWAY PLAN? Have you checked the coaching forum? It will be posted in the same place your questionnaire is! https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/completed-questionnaires-and-private-coaching-access/

    LE Diet Ideas Threads: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/54174-brand-sparkly-pink-new-diet-thread-girl-sways.html and here:https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/54926-le-diet-thread.html?highlight=le+diet+meal+ideas

    LE Diet PCOS idea thread here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/47264-le-diet-pcos.html

    PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SWAYING QUESTIONS VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE. Post swaying questions in the forums ONLY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush View Post
    My personal opinion is that if you don't have enough CM to test, you've successfully swayed pink anyway and your pH is meaningless - plus if you're using RepHresh your pH will take care of itself anyway. My other personal opinion is that no one should be testing pH anyway because there have been too many pH opposites for it to really make much of a difference and it has the potential to raise your testosterone by being another thing to obsess over. But I know it's hard for peopel to let go of.

    This thread may help. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...-ph-dh-dw.html
    Thank you! I was hoping I could drop this. I just didn't want to be kicking myself in the butt later for not doing it if it was really important. I really think the LE diet has lowered my testosterone (& hopefully will keep lowering it) because before I would have obsessed about not being able to check it right. Now I'm glad it's one less thing I have to do. I feel so chill! Haha!
    2006 2009
    IT'S A GIRL!!!! Prayed for and expecting a June 2013!!!




    "For I know the plans I have for you...plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jeremiah 29:11

    "He has made everything beautiful in its time." Ecclesiastes 3:11

    ‘The lot is cast into the lap but every decision is wholly of the Lord’ (Proverbs 16:33). In Hebrew it reads;‘Even the events that seem accidental are really ordered by Him’.



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    I really needed to see this! Thanks for posting! I was freaking out last month trying to test my pH, and now I don't feel like I need to. This explained perfectly. One less thing to worry about
    2009 2011 2013
    Colton Allen born March 28th!
    In love with my baby boys

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